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Passing VLANs through from Procurve 1800-24g to a netgear switch

 
K34nu
Occasional Visitor

Passing VLANs through from Procurve 1800-24g to a netgear switch

Hi all,

Hoping someone will be able to help with this. I have a HP Procurve 1800-24G as my main switch and i'm looking to daisy chain in another 5 port switch (Netgear GS305E) and pass through the VLANs aswell. I'm still pretty new to VLANs so please excuse my lack of understanding. 

From what i've been reading, Trunking on the Procurve is basically link aggregation, so that's no help to me. However everywhere else seems to use trunking as a VLAN term? I believe trunking is essentially what i'm looking to do here. 

I did read on the help files the following: 

"Switches should be connected to each other with Packet Type set to Tagged and PVID set to "None." However sadly that doesn't seem to have worked either. I've been on a support chat with netgear and they've confirmed that it's all setup correctly on their switch, so it's just the passing through part from the Procurve that's causing issues now.

Any help would be appreciated,

 

Thanks,
Kind regards,

3 REPLIES 3
parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Passing VLANs through from Procurve 1800-24g to a netgear switch

Hi! the trunking terminology you are referring to is almost Cisco biased...and, at the same time, one can tell you the exact contrary...that HP is misusing a well known terminology used for characterizing VLANs memberships.

HP ProCurve uses, as you can easily image, the HP way: Port Trunking means Links Aggregation (EtherChannel in Cisco slang, Bonding/Teaming when using common servers related terminology), the "Cisco" Trunking becomes "VLAN Tagging" in HP slang.

So what you really need here is VLAN Tagging: untag (and tag) a port to be member of a specific VLAN Id...a port can be an Untagged member of only one VLAN ID (generally that is called PVID Port VLAN ID) and, concurrently, that very same port can be Tagged member of one or more VLAN IDs.

Normally an Access (Edge) port used to connect to host is made Untagged member of a required VLAN ID (PVID) so the VLAN unaware host can talk to the port without issues related to have the proper tagging (the switch generally is going to generate a PVID mismatch warning because the Host could be on VLAN ID x and the Access port is made Untagged member of VLAN ID y, the mismatch is x versus y)...the tagging happens inside the switch (while the incoming traffic is accepted Untagged and the outgoing one is simple sent with the VLAN ID Tag stripped away...so without Tag, Untagged).

A different approach is nedeed between peer switches (what you call chained switches): the uplink ports used to interconnect them need to (a) match on a particular VLAN IDs pattern (Untag/Tag, only Tag, only Untag) and need to (b) agree about what VLAN IDs to permit over the interconnection (this has a relationship with point (a)) and that is accomplished by agreeing on what VLAN IDs the ports are Tagged/Untagged member of.

The Netgear GS305E's port used for the uplink to the HP switch needs to be set Untagged member of the VLAN ID "a" and Tagged member of VLAN ID "c", "d", etc. provided that you need to transport (permit) those VLAN IDs between your two switches....the very same applies to the HP ProCurve 1800-24G's port used for the uplink to the Netgear switch.


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K34nu
Occasional Visitor

Re: Passing VLANs through from Procurve 1800-24g to a netgear switch

Hi Parnassus,

First off, i'd like to say wow. Thank you so much for your comprehensive reply. It really does help. I believe I understand exactly what's going on now, though i'm not *entirely* sure if i'll be able to fix it on the Procurve.

From what I can see on the Procurve, it doesn't seem that you're able to set multiple ports to being tagged? I may be wrong about this though (hopefully I am)

On the netgear, it looks like the following:
(I did do a nice table for it but apparently it was invalid html.. so screenshot has been added instead!)


Port 5 on the Netgear goes to port 23 on the Procurve.
(Port 4 is for a unifi AP so I assume that has to follow the same rules as a switch, though question for another day perhaps. It works at the moment, so that's all that matters lol!) 

On the HP, it seems that i'm only able to set the packet type (all / tagged only) and the PVID as you mentioned. Under VLAN Setup, the Port 23 is member of VLAN1/10/15 but I can't see a way via the VLAN port config section to set multiple ports as tagged and leave the untagged one alone. (Screenshot for clarity) It only allows me to select one item from that dropdown, and if you set it to say "Tagged Only, 10" it'll kill the connection. 

Thank you again for your comprehensive reply, really really appreciate it.

Kind regards,

parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Passing VLANs through from Procurve 1800-24g to a netgear switch

Hi! re-reading my post I should have written better:

"So what you really need here is VLAN Tagging: untag (and tag) a port to be member of a specific VLAN Id...a port can be an Untagged member of only one VLAN ID (generally that is called PVID Port VLAN ID) and, concurrently, that very same port can be also (or, eventually, only) Tagged member of one or more VLAN IDs. A port can be - technically speaking - orphaned of its untagged native VLAN id 1 only if it becomes untagged or tagged (or untagged and tagged) member of other VLAN id."

Said so...I agree with you...some switch's Web GUI are designed by ignorants (with ignorants I mean particular software developers guru of codes but totally having no idea of what is a user interface and what purpose it is used for)...thus setting a simple thing like untagged assignement for a port can be non trivial.

I haven't a 1800 to test...so I can only suggest you to poke with the GUI (some GUIs force the user to select first the VLAN and then apply its related setting to a particular port but, I'm sure, other GUIs work differently...like first selecting the port and then applying VLANs settings). For sure - at least for what I can think of - a port in a default state is untagged member of VLAN 1 (PVID = 1) so if you are successfull in adding another VLAN ID that VLAN ID should be seen as the additional tagged membership for that port...but I could be wrong since GUIs are very strange.

I've found this note about 1800 VLAN configuration:

When packet type is ALL:
1. The PVID VLAN on a port is untagged.
2. The member VLANs that are NOT PVID are tagged.

When packet type is TAGGED ONLY:
All member VLAN's are tagged, PVID doesn't apply.

thanks to this old thread.

On the Netgear what I see make me think that:

  • ports 4 and 5 are untagged on VLAN 1 and tagged on VLAN 10 and VLAN 15.
  • port 3 could be untagged on VLAN 10 (or tagged on VLAN 10 without an untagged membership at all)
  • port 1 and 2 could be untagged on VLAN 15 (or tagged on VLAN 15 without an untagged membership at all)

but, again, the provided VLAN membership representation is not clear at all to me.

Edit: about HP 1800 I found this...maybe it helps.


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