Unable to see Hitachi disks using SAM.

[John Tyler]

We have some N-Class running HP/UX 11.0 connected to Hitachi HDS9960 and 7700E in a brocade fabric mode.

The servers are seeing the disks fine. However one of the admins who prefers SAM over command line found that he can't see the disks using SAM. SAM core dumps with a error message.
I have the latest SAM/OBAM patch on the boxes.

I opened a ticket with HP and the support person checked with WTEC and told me that sam doesn't support hitachi. This is surprising since HP resells Hitachi as XP512/256.

Has anyone else experienced similar problem?

Thanks in advance
ven.

[Helen French · Accepted solution]

Hi Krishnan,

What you and the HP support saying are right. SAM and HP doesn't support the disk array.

Check this document:

http://us-support3.external.hp.com/cki/bin/doc.pl/sid=4287d2ea0f6360de0a/screen=ckiDisplayDocument?docId=200000049196663

HTH,
Shiju

[Helen French]

Hi,

Again, apply the patch PHCO_23876 on the server. This patch has solution for some of the SAM - Hitachi issues.

HTH,
Shiju

[John Tyler]

Thanks Shiju. That was a quick response!
I am disappointed with HP's answer.

[Vincent Fleming]

I am sory to hear that you are disappointed with HP's answer on this one... perhaps I can explain a little.

HP added management features to the XP that the Hitachi version of the hardware does not have. Much of the HP management software uses these extensions, and have a difficult time distinguishing between the Hitachi and the XP, which can cause problems. (They look virtually identical to the OS, except for the extensions)

It's unfortunate you didn't get the XP - the management of the frame is much better than with the Hitachi - which is HP's value-add.

Good luck!

[John Tyler]

Vincent,

Thanks for your response. It's hard to justify the price difference between XP512 and HDS9960 for the "features" which is not used by everyone.

In a multi unix-flavor environment, diskframes are a commodity and HP's approach of trying to force customers to buy HP's disk frames does not go well with buyers particularly when HP's competition from the "sun"ny california flaunts the ability to work in multivendor heterogenous environment without their gotchas.

It becomes a tough management sell with these quirks when it comes to deciding the preferred "unix" vendor.

[Vincent Fleming]

Ven,

I think you misunderstand... I don't think that HP is trying to "force" anyone into buying an XP by introducing bugs into SAM...

I meant just the opposite - HP tests the XP in HPUX environments. Why test a product (like your Hitachi) that you don't sell? Isn't that Hitachi's problem? The onus is on them to do some testing. Don't blame HP if Hitachi doesn't actually test their product.

Perhaps that's why the Hitachi's cheaper. You get what you pay for.

Good luck!

[Ziggy Stardust]

Have you considered using Hi-Command and Highground? They both work with Hitachi Storage.

A fleeting thought: what value added do I get with XP512 add-ons if I connect an IBM mainframe running zOS or OS390?

Z

[Vincent Fleming]

Mainframe value add - similar to Open Systems...

A Secure (SSL) web-based management utility (COmmandView) that integrates performance management, configureation, Business Copy and Continuous Access creation and manipulation all in a single, secure, remotely-managable web console.

But don't trust me - get a hands-on demonstration of the management software from both companies, and judge for yourself. Don't forget the hands-on part... slideware doesn't count.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Openview doesn't appear to give any value added for z/OS (IBM mainframe) users.

Omniback doesn't run on z/OS, and it doesn't integrate with z/OS in the same way as Harbor or ADSM.

Omnistorage supports z/OS. NOT! Storage Optimiser. Nope! How about Storage Allocater? Na, no luck either.

Looks to me like the HP software offered with XP512 doesn't even know that z/OS exists.

So my question remains unaswered; for z/OS users, where is the value added of an XP over a Lightning 9900?

Z

[William Shaw]

Hello all, I mayhave some insight into this issue, as I work HDS arrays on a daily basis and have experience with this issue. What I have seen is that SAM will see the disks on a HDS branded array, but misinterprets multiple disks of the same type on the same port as multiple paths to a single device. So if you have 4 open-3's and 4 open-9's, SAM will "see" one open-3 with 4 paths, and one open-9 with 4 paths. Any attempts to use for volume group creation or other LVM tasks will fail. My understanding of this issue is that this "feature" was implemented in order to keep HDS from selling directly into the HP market (even though a mutual agreement of such was already in place). I have also worked with the HP branded XP arrays, and am not aware of any HP value added management functionality in the XP array that doesn't exist in the HDS array.

Regards, Bill

[Vincent Fleming]

Bill,

So, if you haven't noticed the difference, it doesn't exist? ;-}

To see the HP value-added management interface, run xpinfo on a host with an HDS-branded array, and again on a host with an HP-branded array, and compare the output. An XP provides *a lot* more information - including array group, FC port, RAID level, a list of the drives in the group, etc. The HDS-branded array will return virtually nothing. This xpinfo information is only a subset of the information available via the interface.

Good luck!

[John Tyler]

Well,

Then HP sales will have a problem in a multi -vendor shop !

It's fine for HP to sell their addons like XPinfo.

The bottom line is when HP pitches it's servers against their "sun"ny competitor, it becomes a negative when HP says we don't support Hitachi within the likes of SAM ( I am not a SAM fan! anyway) unless the frame is HP branded.

Big shops buy their disk frames independent of the unix flavors . So, any unix flavor which cannot fully support these frames will have a problem selling it.

I can remember numerous instances in the past where HP/UX was rejected as the flavor of choice just because of the >8 LUN limitation which existed till recently when connected to Hitachi.
I am sure no one will replace their frames just to run HP/UX.

(Don't get me wrong! I love to work on HP/UX.)

[William Shaw]

Of course I didn't mean to imply that because I didn't know of such functionality (xpinfo command) that it didn't exist!

One question that remains, is there a patch or a fix for the SAM/HDS interoperability "bug"? I recently upgraded an 11.00 server to 11.11, installed 11i patches (March 2002 CD), and SAM still doesn't correctly identify the devices in my HDS arrays. Of course it's not a major issue because all LVM commands work fine on the command line. But if there is such a patch or fix, I would like to try it.

Thanks again, Bill

[Vincent Fleming]

You can try a newer version of XPINFO... which is attached. It may help.

I suppose that if there were a significant number of users out there that asked for better support, and there was the impression that it would significantly increase HP-UX sales, it might make a difference; but I guess there just aren't that many people running HDS arrays with HP-UX right now.

I wish I could give a better answer, but this is about the best I can do right now.

Good luck!

[Vincent Fleming]

I guess the attachment got lost... let's try this again...

[hailerer]

the new version of xpinfo XPinfo-HPUX-v05-00-03.sh can'nt see any HDS9960 luns!