recommendations for SAN backup?

[doug mielke]

I'm shopping for a new tape system. I feel the need for speed.

I currently have 2 (soon to be more) N class servers running Oracle Apps. off of a SAN. (HP EVA)
and 6 N classes running Oracle dev /QA/dr instances off of NAS (Network Appl)

My current archive (tape) backup Solution is 1 single drive/ 15 slot DLT 7000, connected to k class cell manager. SW is OmniBack. It works well, but it's been outgrown.

I'd like to backup SAN data directly off of the SAN fabric, and the NAS through NFS to a server connected to the SAN.

HP tells me there is no solution that connects to the fiber switch directly, that I'll have a server as cell manager, and data path will be Drive array ==> switch ==>server HBA ==> tape library.

Can't I bypass that HBA connection? Are any of you using tapes connected directly to the switch? Even if a server has to manage the solution, I don't see a reason for the data to have to travel through that server on the way to the tape.

[Alzhy]

Doug,

How large will your disk storage be? Do you still have the so called "Backup Windows" or it is virtually gone (as it is in my turf)?

I could suggest LEGATO or Veritas NetBackup with its Vertex technology. Both of these products offer serverless backup technologies by utilizing SCSI commands to move data from disk direct to tape. Your NetApps Filer can be backed up via ndmp (Legato as well) or a Veritas module -- I forgot the name...

Personally though I think TAPE is dead as a backup medium. Disk using low cost ATA disks are fast rising options to tape backups. Already, low cost ATA RAID boxes or blades are becoming increasingly available as backup media.. Imagine these days, ATA disks already go up to 300+GB on a single 3.5 inch drive at cost factors already approaching tape costs.. The latest versions of NetBackup and Legato already support "virtual tapes" that are actually disk objects...

[Leif Halvarsson_2]

Hi,
Have a look at HP Data Protector 5.1 and HP StorageWorks MSL5030 Ultrium library with the internal e1200 Storage Router. There is support for direct (serverless) backups but check with your HP sales before if your hardware/software combination is supported, serverlass backup is a rather complex technology.

There is also some other facilitys in DP that may be of interest for you (for example "zero downtime backups").

[Alzhy]

And should you still continue with the TAPE approach and a serverless backup scheme - I would recommend StorageTek Tape/Media frames as they virtually could handle any kind of drive (DLT, LTO) and media... Very robust as well and fully supported by most enterprise backup vendors...

[Elena Leontieva]

We have older models of Netapps, F720 and F760.
CA BrigtStorEB and Veritas NetBackup can backup/restore NAS filer to a tape library, direct attached to the NAS filer via NDMP eliminating network traffic.

Newer models of Netapps are SAN capable.

Compatibility between all hardware/firmware/software components is a key here.

Elena.

[Robert-Jan Goossens]

I would go for the legato solution. Take a look at next link.

http://portal1.legato.com/products/networker/

Hope it helps,

Robert-Jan.

[Mike Naime]

There is a device for "SAN ATTACHING" your tape libray that I saw a white paper on about 1-1/2 years ago. This was on the Compaq side of the house. It uses a device that I believe used to be called a Modular Data Router. I'm not exactl'y sure what they are calling it these days since they changed the name of it about a year ago. This is a fibre connection to your switch that accepts modules that the old SCSI cables from your existing tape library would plug into.
You still access the device from a server on the SAN. But you plug it into the SAN, not your server.

We are in the middle of implementing something like this for our data center. (Compaq SAN with VMS, AIX, and W2k)

Oracle RMAN ==> Backup Disk(EVA) ==>EVA SNAP to backup cluster ==> Tape(s) (Onsite and Offsite)

[Zeev Schultz]

Ever thinked about Continuous Access (like Data replication) solution for EVA?See here
http://h18006.www1.hp.com/products/storage/software/conaccesseva/specifications.html

As it was already mentioned tape backup vs storage backup (replications,snapshots and cloning) is a touchy issue. In my opinion its
up to site storage overall size and diversity of technologies (nas,san,iscsi etc) used.

On the other hand , you can use both approaches - keep a replica of your storage data (~zero downtime) and backup with tape solutions whatever else.

[david5337_1]

OK,SAN based bakcup is very important backup.
It can link the tape library to the SAN switch,then backup data directly from disk array through SAN switch to tape library.
So,you can select the MSL series tape library,and the SAN backup software example Veritas netbackup or Legato Networker.They can do the server-less backup,reduce the backup window time or no backup window time.
And you can use the disk array based clone or snapshot function to improve the bakup performance.

[Mohamed K Ahmed]

Well, Where does the SAN backup software goes?, does it get installed on a laptop connected to the switch, and it can sees the drives as seen by the systems, or is it installed on the system itself?
If there is more than one server attached to the SAN switch, can I backup different disks from different systems?

Thanks
Mohamed

[Dave La Mar]

Mohamed -
While we are connected to our SAN/backup servers/tape library in the way you wish not to go, our VERITAS Netbackup Data Center product will backup (both internal and san) drives from multiple servers. The caveat is the licensing required to install the client software on each of the servers to be backed up.
After much reseach of Omniback, Legato, and Veritas, we chose Veritas.
Though we struggled through some initial hardware/software problems that are expected on any new product, the Veritas solution has been very solid for our shop.
Happy hunting.

Best regards,

dl

[Andy McCreath]

We also are going through a review process with these vendors at present. Local testing on a small tape library IBM-3583 with foutr drives (LTO1) gave us very drastic differences in performance and continuity.
Data Protector 5.0 underperformed giving a meager 865MB/minute, Veritas hit the mark with 1.3GB/minute, and Legato was a couple of Meg behind that. HP are scheduled onsite to review DP 5.1 in our test lab, they expect to hit the ballpark now.
We run all this through the Fabric module of the library so I would highly recommend investing an a Modular Data Router, much better than running it over the local wire (LAN).
All you have to do after that is 'add' the MDR port to the zone of each SAN server so each SAN server can see the device.
Easy or what.... ?!###