Implementation of a replication method between MSA 2050 and MSA 1050

[Romain1]

Hello,

I have a video storage project.

For that, I have been provided with the following hardware :

• Proliant DL360 Gen9 Server (Windows 2016 Server with video application)
• MSA 2050 (11 * 8TB)
• MSA 1050 (10 * 8TB)

The hardware was purchased without full validation of the requirement.

Today, I have been asked a data replication between the MSA 2050 and the MSA 1050 (if possible realtime replication (synchronous)) but I confess I don't know much about these materials.

The goal would be to have a volume attached to the windows Server and replicate this volume.

My idea would be to have a RAID5+1 volume on the MSA 2050 replicated with a RAID5 volume on the MSA 1050.

About the cabling, currently :

• Port SAS 1 - controller A - MSA 1050 connected to HPE H241 Smart HBA card
• Port SAS 1 - controller B - MSA 1050 connected to HPE H241 Smart HBA card
• Cable SAS - controller A - MSA 1050 connected to PORT IN – MSA 2050
• Cable SAS - controller B - MSA 1050 connected to PORT IN – MSA 2050

According to my research, it seems to have several methods of replication (snapshots,…) and I'm a bit lost. I confess that I don't know the hardware.

2 questions :

• What do you think would be the best replication method to implement ?
• Is the cabling I made good ?

Thank you very much for your advice !

Best regards,

[SUBHAJIT KHANBARMAN_1]

@Romain1 

After going through your details I would like to inform you two things,

>> Synchronous Replication not supported with MSA

>> SAS interface not supported for replication

You need to work with your solution. Better to start with going through product quick spec, MSA Remote Snap Software whitepaper, best practices whitepaper.

Quickspec

https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/getdocument.aspx?docname=a00008276enw

MSA Remote Snap Software whitepaper

https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA1-0977ENW.pdf

Best practices whitepaper

https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/getpdf.aspx/A00015961ENW.pdf?

Hope this helps!
Regards
Subhajit

I am an HPE employee

If you feel this was helpful please click the KUDOS! thumb below!

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[Shawn_K]

Hello,

You have a couple of misconceptions about working with replication on the MSA. Let me clarify a couple of key points.

First the MSA does not perform syncronous replication. I still think the MSA would be a good fit for your project but you will have to design in a replication schedule that will best work for you. I will give you some links to documents for further information.

You should also be aware that the MSA SAS arrays do not support replication. While you have not stated specifically you are using SAS arrays your configuraiton outline suggests these are both SAS arrays. It is also unsupported to directly cable to MSA arrays together as you have outlined for replication. 

Since this project sounds like you are going to want to replicate video files, I would suggest a more robust RAID volume. I would go for a RAID6 configuration with spares made available. The MSA actually performs quite well with video file transfers so you do not need to worry about the performance difference between a RAID5 and RAID6 disk-group. You will want to protect that data by using the redundancy of RAID6 with spares.

Now if you are truly using SAS arrays you will need to consider a host side scheme for redundancy. Depending on your OS there are several options.

For further information I suggest reviewing the following documents.

HPE MSA SMU Guide: https://support.hpe.com/hpesc/public/docDisplay?docId=a00017707en_us

HPE MSA 1050/2050 Best Practices: https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/Getdocument.aspx?docname=a00015961enw

If you wish to check your firmware on your system you can now do so easily by checking this link: www.hpe.com/storage/msafirmware

Also, to check the overall health of your system and any available firmware versions you can use our new MSA Health Check Tool at the following link: www.hpe.com/storage/MSAHealthCheck

Download your MSA Log File from your MSA array
Upload the MSA Log File into the MSA Health Check website
Review the results by clicking through the tabs and saving the PDF report
Links to array, enclosure, and drive firmware are provided for easy acces

I work for Hewlett Packard Enterprise. The comments in this post are my own and do not represent an official reply from HPE. No warranty or guarantees of any kind are expressed in my reply.

Cheers,
Shawn

[Romain1]

Hello,

Thank you very much for your explanations !

Yes, I’m confirming that the both hosts are SAS type with SAS MDL disks. So, the initial project isn’t possible. No replication is possible with SAS hosts ?! I understand my confusion better !

We'll see about setting up a backup system at night. We agree that the MSA does not incorporate a backup system/method ?

In this case, we study 2 solutions :

• The creation of a disk pool with all disks (MSA 1050/MSA 2050) and a volume (RAID 5 or 6 with spares). The backup solution will be an external tool.
• The creation of 2 disk pools with and 2 volumes (RAID 5 or 6 with spares). The first volume will be data and the second volume will be backup. In this case, is it advisable to create a disk pool A and B with a volume on each disk pool (leverages both controllers) ?

About the MSA cabling, do you think that it's correct ? I'm a little confused about this.

Thanks a lot for your help !

[SUBHAJIT KHANBARMAN_1]

@Romain1 

1st of all you can't connect MSA 2050 and MSA 1050 with SAS interface and use it as a single unit. You need to use both systems individually.

Answering to your solution,

• The creation of a disk pool with all disks (MSA 1050/MSA 2050) and a volume (RAID 5 or 6 with spares). The backup solution will be an external tool.

Ans: You can opt this but you need to use MSA 1050 and MSA 2050 as individual unit. You can use single system also as per your requirement but another system will be ideal in that case and no use of it.

• The creation of 2 disk pools with and 2 volumes (RAID 5 or 6 with spares). The first volume will be data and the second volume will be backup. In this case, is it advisable to create a disk pool A and B with a volume on each disk pool (leverages both controllers) ?

Ans: Same system production and backup not a good idea because of single point of failure but it's possible. Again same logic either you use both system individually or you can use single system then another system will be of no use as of now.

Possible options that I can think of,

>> Use MSA 2050 for production and MSA 1050 as backup but you need to check if you can implement replication at the Host operating System level instead of MSA block level

>> You can check with your re-seller and try to replace your SAS controllers with FC or ISCSI controller for both MSA 2050 and MSA 1050. Also you can try for FC/iSCSI combo controllers for both systems. In order to get all details you can check below technical paper.

https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/getdocument.aspx?docname=a00015116enw

Then you can configure Asynchronous remote copy setup

>> Use MSA 2050 and MSA 1050 both as production and you need to find separate backup solution.

>> You can also use MSA 2050 as production and MSA 1050 as backup but you need to manually copy data from one array to another array through Host systems file system level like data copy from one folder to another folder.

You can also involve Solution Consultant or Architect who can guide you in a better way.

Hope this helps!
Regards
Subhajit

I am an HPE employee

If you feel this was helpful please click the KUDOS! thumb below!

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[Romain1]

Hello,

Sorry for the late response, I needed to think about.

You indicated :

1st of all you can't connect MSA 2050 and MSA 1050 with SAS interface and use it as a single unit. You need to use both systems individually

I don’t understand what you're saying because I tried to create a new disk group (Pools tabs in MSA 1050 SAS console) with all disks (MSA 1050/MSA 2050) and it’s working properly. Looks like it's ok. I can select the disk with ID enclosure 1 and 2.

Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm lost with this information.

Can you explain it to me?

Thank you,

Best regards,

[SUBHAJIT KHANBARMAN_1]

@Romain1 

As per my understanding discussion started with two systems as per this statement "Implementation of a replication method between MSA 2050 and MSA 1050" -> This means MSA 2050 one controller enclosure and MSA 1050 one controler enclosure. When you said you want to do replication which means you meant by froent end SAS port only. So accordingly I tried to indicate SAS front end connectivity between MSA 2050 and MSA 1050 which is not possible.

Now as you have mentioned you have connected MSA 2050 and MSA 1050 together which means you have connected in SAS backend and not front end. Moreover both you have connected because one of them Controller enclosure and another one drive enclosure. My guess MSA 1050 controller enclosure and MSA 2050 drive enclosure.

Hope this helps!
Regards
Subhajit

I am an HPE employee

If you feel this was helpful please click the KUDOS! thumb below!

*************************************************************************

[Romain1]

Yes, exactly. MSA 1050 controller enclosure and MSA 2050 drive enclosure.

I’m so sorry, for this confusion. I wish I could have posted a photo to clarify the situation.

Currently, the cabling is (connection at the back-end of the enclosures) :

• Port SAS 1 - controller A - MSA 1050 connected to HPE H241 Smart HBA card
• Port SAS 1 - controller B - MSA 1050 connected to HPE H241 Smart HBA card
• Cable SAS - controller A - MSA 1050 connected to PORT IN – MSA 2050
• Cable SAS - controller B - MSA 1050 connected to PORT IN – MSA 2050

Is that understandable to you ?

If yes, to clarify the situation : 

• There is no method of replication in this configuration ?

If yes, I have to think about finding an alternative with the above ideas :

1. creation of a disk pool with all disks (MSA 1050/MSA 2050) and a volume (RAID 5 or 6 with spares). The backup solution will be an external tool.
2. creation of 2 disk pools with and 2 volumes (RAID 5 or 6 with spares). The first volume will be data and the second volume will be backup. In this case, is it advisable to create a disk pool A and B with a volume on each disk pool (leverages both controllers) ?

• Does this cabling look ok to you ?

Thank you,

Best regards

[Shawn_K]

Hello,

Your configuration is NOT supported!

Currently, the cabling is (connection at the back-end of the enclosures) :

• Port SAS 1 - controller A - MSA 1050 connected to HPE H241 Smart HBA card
• Port SAS 1 - controller B - MSA 1050 connected to HPE H241 Smart HBA card
• Cable SAS - controller A - MSA 1050 connected to PORT IN – MSA 2050
• Cable SAS - controller B - MSA 1050 connected to PORT IN – MSA 2050

You cannot connect two arrays in this manner. Please consider what you are attempting. The MSA1050 controller is connected as a JBOD. If you connect to the MSA1050 and create a volume and create a volume from the MSA2050 - who then has control? You will cause an overlap on the drives that will lead to data integrity issues. There is no array - MSA, 3PAR, EVA, etc. that supports this type of a configuration. Please do not use this configuration for your systems. If you have data on the system - you need to perform an immediate backup.

As you have the systems configured you cannot perform replication. As discussed previously, you have MSA SAS arrays. We do not support replication on the SAS arrays. 

The MSA2050 and MSA1050 should be used as seperate arrays. Cabling them together to try and extend your storage is not supported and will lead to issues. Please review the correct cabling guides.

MSA2050 Cabling Guide: https://support.hpe.com/hpesc/public/docDisplay?docId=a00017716en_us

MSA1050 Cabling Guide: https://support.hpe.com/hpesc/public/docDisplay?docId=a00027958en_us

I work for Hewlett Packard Enterprise. The comments in this post are my own and do not represent an official reply from HPE. No warranty or guarantees of any kind are expressed in my reply.

Cheers,
Shawn

[Romain1]

Hello,

I already read the MSA1050 Cabling Guide.

I thought that my cabling was correct but I was wrong. Nevertheless, page 8 is the cabling that I've done. I think there's been a mix-up from the beginning.

I suppose, like the MSA 2050 is just a MSA 2050 disk enclosure and no a MSA 2050 array controller, my question was confusing. should have tried to explain it better from the start...

Below, a photo of the cabling :

On this picture :

1. Server with HPE H241 Smart HBA card
2. MSA 1050
3. MSA 2050

If my cabing is not correct, can you explain why ?

Thanks,

Best regards,

[Shawn_K]

Hello,

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. You actually have an MSA1050 array enclosure connected to an MSA Gen5 JBOD enclosure (not an MSA2050 array). Your cabling configuration is supported. 

Your picture shows a supported cabling configuration and is exactly how I would have configured this in my lab for fault tolerance.

If I go back to your orginal question I think what you would like to do is have two volumes that replicate to each other. The drawback to this type of situation is your backup exists on the same device as your original data. This does not provide a very robust backup solution if you suffer an array or data center catastrophic event (fire, earthquake, etc.) However, with your current hardware you can configure the drives to hold a Pool on the disks in the first enclosure and another Pool on the disks in the second enclosure. Doing a host based snap or backup of your data would then be possible between the volumes.

If you decide to go this route be aware it is not very robust as all of your data and backup data resides in one place. Be sure to keep all your array and drives at latest firmware, configure and monitor event alerts to be proactive in keeping the system healthy, and consider future growth potential opportunites for a second system to backup your data too.

I work for Hewlett Packard Enterprise. The comments in this post are my own and do not represent an official reply from HPE. No warranty or guarantees of any kind are expressed in my reply.

Cheers,
Shawn

[Romain1]

Hello,

Thank you very much for your answer! Great news!
Sorry for my late answer, I wanted to take the time to try.

I am aware that this is not a robust backup solution. Thank you.

I made a configuration as we said :

About the two options you indicated : However, with your current hardware you can configure the drives to hold a Pool on the disks in the first enclosure and another Pool on the disks in the second enclosure. Doing a host based snap or backup of your data would then be possible between the volumes.

• Snapshots : I couldn't figure out how to backup them on the second volume. From what I've read, it doesn't work like that. Right?
• Backup data : I need to mount the volumes on the Windows server and manage this with third party software. Do we agree? I haven't found anything that allows me to do this natively and automatically with MSA.

Thanks a lot.

Best regards.

[Romain1]

Hello all,

According to my tests, I think use snapshots.

The idea is to take a snapshot regularly and map/mount the snapshot on the hosts (Windows Server) if you need to recover a backup (.

What do you think ?

I just have a question about the location of the snapshots. They are located on the same pool as the target volume ?

How to manage storage space ? Is it better to create a smaller volume and leave space in the pool for snapshots ?

Thank you,

Best regards,

[Romain1]

Hi all,

So, I'm going to create 1 pool with all disks and 1 volume.

This volume will be smaller than the pool. The free space will be for the snapshots.

Then, I will execute this command (the options will have to be validated) :

set snapshot-space pool A limit 15% middle-threshold 85% limit-policy delete

What do you think ?

Thanks a lot

Best regards,

Romain

[SUBHAJIT KHANBARMAN_1]

@Romain1 

It's not clear what is your query actually. However trying to answer,

So, I'm going to create 1 pool with all disks and 1 volume.

>> There is nothing to comment here as it will be as per your requirement.

This volume will be smaller than the pool. The free space will be for the snapshots.

>> Yes that is true

Then, I will run this command (the options will have to be validated) :

set snapshot-space pool A limit 15% middle-threshold 85% limit-policy delete

>> This command is used specifically to set snapshot space and associate any policy to it. You need to keep in mind later you need to set retention count as well when you define snapshots for the volume.

Hope this helps!
Regards
Subhajit

I am an HPE employee

If you feel this was helpful please click the KUDOS! thumb below!

*************************************************************************

[Romain1]

Hi,

@SUBHAJIT KHANBARMAN_1 

>> It's not clear what is your query actually. However trying to answer

OK, since replication is not possible, the project evolved. I would like just to have a daily backup. The idea is to take a snapshot regularly and map/mount the snapshot on the hosts (Windows Server) if you need to recover a backup.

>> This command is used specifically to set snapshot space and associate any policy to it. You need to keep in mind later you need to set retention count as well when you define snapshots for the volume.

Yes, of course. I would like to set snapshot space for a supplementary options such as automatic deletion when the snapshot space is reached (we are aware of the risks).

Otherwise, I would like to determine approximately the snapshots space required for 16 days retention with 70TB. Is it possible to predict the approximate storage space required ?

Thank you,

Best regards