CDE & Citrix

[nlbsn]

I have a project manager that wants to implement a windows environment on Unix to replace reflectionsX on the PCs. The plan is to install Citrix on Unix and have the users connect to the Unix box that way. Citrix on Unix works ten times faster than reflections X and seems to be a good idea.

However, this same person wants us to provide CDE through Citrix to give the users a full windows environment. I don't want my group to support CDE for up to 120 users off one system. They are server admins - not desktop admins.

Instead, we would like to publish the apps through Citrix or have the users launch the apps they require from one xterm (limiting the Citrix pipes). Through this, we can provide 100% of the required functionality and less of a headache to support.

Has anyone implemented or supported this environment?

I need to come up with some compelling reasons and examples why CDE is not a good idea. I have estimated that in order to support CDE, it would take up 1/3 of a FTE resource.

Does anyone have any good solid provable arguments against implementing CDE to a non-unix based end users?

I have supported it before and its just such a headache when something goes wrong, which there is always something.

Any ideas or thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thank you,
Nicole

[Chris Vail]

I can't give you good, solid ideas to support your contention. The opposite is true in my experience. We use Citrix Metaframe for Unix for about 200 users connecting to about 15 HPux servers. The only issue we've had is getting the users familiar with the CDE desktop itself, rather than the CMFU utility. Once they learn how to start a terminal session, and launch dtpad, they're all happy.
We have a deskside support team that directly handles end-user issues, so your situation may be different than here. But Citrix itself is very, very low-maintenance. I found that a single phone call is usually all we need to get a user up, running, and happy. To be sure: we have a pretty high standard of who we will employ here, so again your experience may differ.
The only struggle we've had here was getting security to let us set up network printers, rather than using the Citrix print utilities.
Because it doesn't do very much, CDE AFAIC is much easier to support and maintain than any M$ O/S. Citrix just handles the connection between the desktop and the server. And it is MUCH, MUCH easier to support and maintain than Reflection X or Exceed.
Also, CMFU shares licenses with other Citrix servers on your network. So you probably only need to purchase the 3 user pack (for less than $3k) and that server will share licenses with the M$ Citrix servers on the same network.
I'm only astonished that CMFU isn't more heavily marketed and used than it is. It is a GREAT product.


Chris

[nlbsn]

Thank you. You haven't had any issues with supporting CDE? What about the stability of the CDE desktop and the rumor that HP will no longer support? Do you know how many calls your help desk gets in regards to CDE?

I like the idea of Citrix and we have a Citrix team that will support Citrix. I am just concerned that my admins will end up getting lots of calls and spending lots of time supporting CDE. I don't want a server team to turn into a desktop team.

One of the pressing reasons for CDE vs just publishing the needed apps through Citrix, is that they don't want the users to have to see a Unix prompt.

I am all for making things easier.. I just want to make sure I understand the good/bad points and make the best decision.

[Chris Vail]

Nicole:
No, we haven't had a CDE question called into the help desk in many weeks. I just looked at the current logs, and there aren't any. Almost all such calls were actually issues with Exceed (some legacy users still use it) and one for Reflection (I don't even know how this one showed up).
Remember that CDE doesn't do a lot. Because of this, its hard to break the system underlying it. This won't, of course, stop somebody from removing their own files, but they can do that with graphical or text.
Once again, we do tend to hire fairly bright people. I dread the thought of giving CDE out at my former employer (this is the one where we had a help desk call [from Louisana, of course] where she said she didn't know that the "foot pedal" was for) (it was the mouse).
We typed up a users guide, and put it on the document manager--this forestalls most of the calls.
CDE is really no big deal, AFAIC.


Chris

[nlbsn]

OK - thank you.

[Chris Vail]

Do us all a favor and get in the habit of assigning points when asking questions here. This is the closest thing we have to a scoring system here. Maybe we'll get a mousepad for all our efforts.



Chris

[Donny Jekels · Accepted solution]

oh Chris,

give the lady a break she's new. I am sure she'll assign you points if she gets to it.

peace
Donny

[Donny Jekels]

oh Chris,

give the lady a break she's new. I am sure she'll assign you points if she gets to it.

peace
Donny

[nlbsn]

Thanks, Donny.

Yes, I am new, this is my first post.. However, I am aware of the point system, and have been holding off to have another to rate against. I do thank you very much for responding.

I will fill in the ratings tomorrow.

[Charles Harris]

Dear Nicole,

I just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth.... Citrix ? - The whole of our data centre uses citrix thin clients (approx 400) in a windows environment and I can tell you from daily personal experiance that it is like hell on earth. Having said that, citrix on a PC based environment works very well, just don't let your manager go the thin client route or your office productivity gind to an abrupt halt.

regards,

-=ChaZ=-

[Bolek Mynarski]

The only other piece I would like to bring to the table about using CITRIX solution is, hmm, I think a bug. I am not sure if you are running your HP-UX system 'trusted' but if you do, I have observed some strange things happening.For example, a user who only uses CITRIX as means of connecting to your UNIX system will never getupdated his/her interanl accounting database (the moment you login either with Reflections, telnet, ssh or any other client, everything is fine again and the database gets updated). If you have set, for example an inactivity period for 45 days, I can guarantee that after 45 days such a user will be locked out from the system (based on my personal experience).I run CITRIX servers on two of our HP-UX systems. One 11.00 and the other one is 11.11. 11.00 has the 'older' version of CITRIX while 11.11 is running a newer one. Both of them have the same issue with password/account expiration.Quick check: when logged in using CITRIX run either 'last [yourid]' or /usr/lbin/getprpw -m slogint.In both cases (on my systems) internal databases are not updated. I do not see current date and time of my current session. I am about to make a phone call to CITRIX and bring that to their attention.Has anybody experienced this?