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тАО02-06-2003 09:09 AM
тАО02-06-2003 09:09 AM
I've written up a short paper on using /dev/random with SSH. (Installing, performance & security). I'm interested in feedback regarding the article and especially any experiences other have had in using /dev/random in a production environment (with or without SSH).
http://newfdawg.com/SSHpart5.htm
TIA.
- Chris
Solved! Go to Solution.
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тАО02-06-2003 09:16 AM
тАО02-06-2003 09:16 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
It's for 11i only, and we need it for 11.00. Do you have solutions for 11.00 too? Please?
Enjoy, have FUN! H.Merijn
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тАО02-06-2003 09:24 AM
тАО02-06-2003 09:24 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Otherwise... I'd say update-ux. :->
- Chris
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тАО02-06-2003 09:41 AM
тАО02-06-2003 09:41 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Enjoy, have FUN! H.Merijn
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тАО02-07-2003 01:16 AM
тАО02-07-2003 01:16 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
I think HP is very dark in this kind of issues. I also think HP is slow for implementing easy solutions available yes in other Unix environments (as Linux). For instance, it is possible create /dev/zero in HP-UX 11.00 but I cannot find any man page where it is described.
Other issue may be internet security... HP startet support for OpenSSH but HP doesn't support PGP (other interesting security product)
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тАО02-07-2003 10:47 AM
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тАО02-10-2003 02:20 AM
тАО02-10-2003 02:20 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
I can't remember where I picked this up, but
making /dev/zero goes like this :
------------------------------
#!/bin/sh
# major/minor for HPUX 11.X
mknod /dev/zero c 3 4
chown bin:bin /dev/zero
chmod 666 /dev/zero
-------------------------------
Though I don't know what the results of writing to /dev/zero might be ... reading
from it works fine.
-rg-
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тАО02-18-2003 02:45 PM
тАО02-18-2003 02:45 PM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
http://www.software.hp.com/cgi-bin/swdepot_parser.cgi/cgi/displayProductInfo.pl?productNumber=KRNG11I
Berlene
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тАО02-18-2003 03:28 PM
тАО02-18-2003 03:28 PM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
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тАО02-19-2003 04:45 AM
тАО02-19-2003 04:45 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Berlene
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тАО02-19-2003 07:47 AM
тАО02-19-2003 07:47 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
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тАО03-13-2003 01:10 AM
тАО03-13-2003 01:10 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Thanks for the install howto, but it seems not to describe the current KRNG11i package.
swlist shows
KRNG11i B.11.11.06 HP-UX 11.11 Strong Random Number Generator
However, no /dev/random or /dev/urandom
a lsdev -e 57 shows
Character Block Driver Class
57 1 dmp vxvm
Also no startup scripts in the package. Any idea how to get the /dev/random devices?
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тАО03-13-2003 01:27 AM
тАО03-13-2003 01:27 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
http://sourceforge.net/projects/egd/
Enjoy, have FUN! H.Merijn
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тАО03-13-2003 03:43 AM
тАО03-13-2003 03:43 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Michal
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тАО03-13-2003 07:57 AM
тАО03-13-2003 07:57 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Your paper says: "For HP-SSH to utilize the new RNG no configuration changes need to be made to SSH." That doesn't sound right to me. Openssh's configure script attempts to find your entropy sources, and if it cannot find one, it uses its own fallback internal source. Getting openssh to recognize a new source of entropy, like a newly created /dev/urandom, will require a rebuild, unless I'm missing something.
[...tim spends hour playing with this stuff...]
OK, here's what I think happens. Openssl will detect and use a newly created /dev/[u]random at run time, even if that entropy source didn't exist at build time. But Openssh decides whether or not to use its internal entropy source at build time.
So for example, I had PRNGD running when I built openssl (0.9.6g), and then openssh (3.5p1). Now I stop prngd, and remove its socket. Openssh now stops functioning (i.e., the client dies with "Entropy collection failed" message). I then create HP's new /dev/[u]random devices, and -- whamo! -- openssh starts working again.
I suspect this is because openssh was built to use openssl's entropy, and openssl is smart enough to find the new device at run time. But if openssh was built to use its own entropy source, it will never find /dev/[u]random without a rebuild.
So the question for HP is, what entropy source does HP's SSH product use? My guess is that they'll have to ship a new product to make use of the new /dev/[u]random devices.
-Tim
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тАО03-13-2003 08:07 AM
тАО03-13-2003 08:07 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
By default, I believe HP uses the ~openssh2/etc/ssh_prng_cmds file for it's source.
It's just a list of commands and bit rates to generate the entropy.
HTH,
Jeff
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тАО03-13-2003 08:46 AM
тАО03-13-2003 08:46 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
# kmadmin -s
Name ID Status Type
=====================================================
krm 1 LOADED WSIO
rng 2 LOADED WSIO
#
If it's not loading, check /etc/rc.config.d/kminit and SAM/Kernel/Drivers and make sure rng is listed as a loadable module.
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тАО03-13-2003 09:32 AM
тАО03-13-2003 09:32 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
It's not supported on 11.0 & lower.
My $0.02,
Jeff
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тАО03-13-2003 09:50 AM
тАО03-13-2003 09:50 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Thanks,
Chris
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тАО03-13-2003 10:01 AM
тАО03-13-2003 10:01 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
I think you can figure out the entropy issue by looking at the files in:
/opt/ssh/src/ssh
According to the SSH O'Reilly book: SSH1 and SSH2 use a kernel-based randomness source if it is available, etc....
I think you only need to recompile if you wanted to use an add-on "randomness source", such as EGD, which is what you would need to do with 11.0.
- Chris
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тАО03-13-2003 09:25 PM
тАО03-13-2003 09:25 PM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
With regards to commentary about HP being slow to adopt certain technologies and Linux being faster....
HP really isn't that slow but there is a reason that the most reliable form of Unix is HP-UX and not any Linux distribution. HP's caution is one of them.
I will add that I'm quite annoyed at how slow key transfer is with ssh, but I'm willing to tolerate it to maintain my support agreement.
SEP
Owner of ISN Corporation
http://isnamerica.com
http://hpuxconsulting.com
Sponsor: http://hpux.ws
Twitter: http://twitter.com/hpuxlinux
Founder http://newdatacloud.com
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тАО03-14-2003 12:21 PM
тАО03-14-2003 12:21 PM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Looks like openssh always looks at /dev/urandom, no matter how it is compiled. I couldn't figure this out from the sources, but I rebuilt openssh to use the ssh-rand-helper and it still tries to read /dev/urandom.
My speculations about how openssl fits into this may be a red herring. I don't know.
I'd like a definitive answer, or at least a diagnotic procedure to determine which entropy source your ssh is using. I guess it's back to more heavy grepping in the openssh sources...
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тАО04-23-2003 10:57 AM
тАО04-23-2003 10:57 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
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тАО04-23-2003 11:06 AM
тАО04-23-2003 11:06 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
Why did you "rm -r .ssh"?
The only file that can be removed when adding the /dev/random is the prng_seed file.
"The prng_seed files can be removed (this
includes the one in root???s .ssh directory) since the new device driver (accessed via /dev/random and /dev/urandom) does not need this seed file to create a random
number. "
Hope this helps.
- Chris
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тАО12-16-2003 04:35 AM
тАО12-16-2003 04:35 AM
Re: /dev/random & SSH
--8<---
Subject: /dev/random for HP-UX 11.00 0.0.3 - A /dev/random device for HP-UX 11.00 (DLKM).
From: hpux11-random@freshmeat.net
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:00:11 +0000 (UTC)
Newsgroups: fm.announce
/dev/random for HP-UX 11.00 0.0.3
by Jos Visser (http://freshmeat.net/~josv/)
Monday, December 15th 2003 02:00
About:
/dev/random for HP-UX 11.00 provides a device driver that generates
high-quality random numbers.
Changes:
This version resolves a race condition, which could lead to a kernel panic.
Release focus: Major bugfixes
License: GNU General Public License (GPL)
Project URL: http://freshmeat.net/projects/hpux11-random/
Homepage: http://freshmeat.net/redir/hpux11-random/43684/url_homepage/hpux11-random
Tar/GZ: http://freshmeat.net/redir/hpux11-random/43684/url_tgz/hpux11-random-current.tar.gz
Tar/BZ2: http://freshmeat.net/redir/hpux11-random/43684/url_bz2/hpux11-random-0.0.3.tar.gz
-->8---
And I wondered if people alsready used/tested it, and what HP's view about it is.
Home URL: http://www.josvisser.nl/hpux11-random/
And it WORKS!
Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn