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04-03-2007 10:54 AM
04-03-2007 10:54 AM
Disk Bottleneck
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04-03-2007 11:14 AM
04-03-2007 11:14 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
Is the system having a performance problem, or an alert problem. That's the main question.
May it is just a monitor which is nagging.
If you are having a performance problem, then you'll have to get going at who is using what, when, and why. Often a tedious, sometimes a rewarding task.
Maybe the (periods of) overload are perfectly reasonable / designed for, maybe not something is broken.
With the amount of detail provide (NONE) the playing field is wide open.
The alert is just an threshhold exceeded. That threshold may be reasonable, for disk busy it is often not.
Ignoring the alert or raising the threshhold may be the right thing to do.
google: +"disk busy" +hpux +site:itrc.hp.com
Good luck!
Hein van den Heuvel ( at gmail dot com )
HvdH Performance Consulting.
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04-03-2007 11:33 AM
04-03-2007 11:33 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
You can easily correct all the performance issues by locking all the accounts so no one can login or use the computer. But that isn't practical. So you start by determining whether the applications have been adequately configured for your size machine. If you don't have enough memory and the apps are so large that they cause a lot of paging, then performance will be awful (and you won't see many Glance alerts because swapping isn't monitored by default).
So you'll need to research the apps and user activities to determine if any are misconfigured. Glance will show you the top processes that use CPU or disk resources.
Bill Hassell, sysadmin
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04-03-2007 04:58 PM
04-03-2007 04:58 PM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=961429
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=990138
Regards,
Asif Sharif
Asif Sharif
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04-04-2007 07:56 AM
04-04-2007 07:56 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
This server is an rp3440-4 with 2 1GHz CPUâ s and an MSA30-DB with 12 72GB hard drives. The MSA30 is connected to the rp3440 via a Smart Array 6404/256 SCSI controller. There are 6 hard drives on the first channel and they are striped as one drive and are mirrored to the other 6 drives on the second channel. I also have 4GB of RAM. Most of the space on the server is setup as RAW space used by the Ifas database in Informix.
This server is still in test mode. When I was getting these errors we were doing a volume test on our server. What that means is that we had about 20 users logged on to the server and had them running several reports. During the first 30 minutes of the test there were several TACS reports that were running that took up a lot of disk usage (It went to 100% and stayed there for about 20 minutes). During that time my users were having trouble in signing on to the server and moving between screens within their programs. They were having delays of up to a minute which is unacceptable.
Once the TACS reports were done my users were able to login and move between screens without any delays.
I took a tuning class several years ago and was trying to figure if there was anything that I could change to speed up my server. Is there any documentation that HP has that will help me to figure out how to speed up my system?
How is RAM allocated with the server? I would like to give more RAM to the User if possible.
Thanks for any help.
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04-04-2007 08:17 AM
04-04-2007 08:17 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
Make certain that you are not swapping to any significanrt degree when under heavy load because this will easily impose a 100x performance hit.
Finally, you may tune this thing, add more memory, processors, and i/o paths and still have a dog because of inefficient or poorly written software. Database applications are notorious for this. If I can assume that you are not swapping then you need to ask yourself this: If I make my machine 2X as fast will it still be a dog? If so, you need to take an extremely hard look at your code because a 2X performance increase is difficult to achieve whereas a 10X increase can often be achieved with better algorithms. With databses, one index may fix a huge chunk of your performance problem.
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04-04-2007 09:11 AM
04-04-2007 09:11 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
I would have thought that with the faster CPU's and twice the RAM that this server would be that much better.
Did I purchase the wrong server platform?
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04-04-2007 09:12 AM
04-04-2007 09:12 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
Excellent news.
>> What that means is that we had about 20 users logged on to the server and had them running several reports.
That's a good first step. Now you have to ask yourself whether this will be a typical load, a worst case load, or was it perhaps an unrealistic load?
This will help you define you SLA.
>> During that time my users were having trouble in signing on to the server and moving between screens within their programs. They were having delays of up to a minute which is unacceptable.
Then you will likely need more hardware,
probably CPU's and Memory.
How was the system sized?
What were/are the expectations?
>> Once the TACS reports were done my users were able to login and move between screens without any delays.
So now you learned to limit the number of report to run at the same time. Will that be an acceptable way to deliver service? It might be.
>> I took a tuning class several years ago and was trying to figure if there was anything that I could change to speed up my server. Is there any documentation that HP has that will help me to figure out how to speed up my system?
it's not easy. It is sort of an art.
That why they pay folks like me and other performance consultants the big bucks!
:-)
>> How is RAM allocated with the server? I would like to give more RAM to the User if possible.
User processes just get what they ask, overflowing to to swap if need be... which will easily explain minutes of slowdown.
Hope this helps some,
Hein van den Heuvel (at gmail dot com)
HvdH Performance Consulting
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04-04-2007 09:25 AM
04-04-2007 09:25 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
In the ligth of this new info my prior reply no longer applies to this problem, or at least no as much.
>> I would have thought that with the faster CPU's and twice the RAM that this server would be that much better.
Me too.
But did you stress the old system to the extent it was stressed in the test?
>> Did I purchase the wrong server platform?
No, something is wrong.
Maybe the the database lost some indexes as it was moved? Dive in solicitating help from the DB team and Applications team.
Hein.
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04-04-2007 09:31 AM
04-04-2007 09:31 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
Assuming that the boxes are tuned roughly the same and that your are doing an apples to apples performance comparioson then I would next make sure that when the database was exported to the test box that all the indices were recreated as well. You may not be aware that SQL code will work perfectly well (in that the same number of rows will be returned) with or without a given index BUT the time required to return that same number of rows could vary by many orders of magnitude.
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04-04-2007 11:20 AM
04-04-2007 11:20 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
L2000 w/ 2GB RAM
Sys Mem: 133.8mb
Buf Cache: 12.2mb
User Mem: 1.81GB
Free Mem: 52.5mb
Rp3440 w/4GB RAM
Sys Mem: 1.1GB
Buf Cache: 1.5GB
User Mem: 1.1GB
Free Mem: 223mb
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04-04-2007 11:36 AM
04-04-2007 11:36 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
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04-04-2007 12:36 PM
04-04-2007 12:36 PM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
Where do I make that change? I started SAM and wet out to the Kernel Configuration. The only thing I can start is the Kernel configuration (kcweb). The only items there are the tunables. max_deb_pct doesnt show up there.
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04-04-2007 12:40 PM
04-04-2007 12:40 PM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
Bill Hassell, sysadmin
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04-04-2007 12:44 PM
04-04-2007 12:44 PM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
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04-05-2007 04:31 AM
04-05-2007 04:31 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
Thanks for the correction in the kernel name. I was abel to change it to 10%. It looks like the extra RAM went into Free Memory. Will that memory get used up by the User Memory?
My next question is concerning the System Memory. Is it a reasonable thing to reduce the amount of RAM allocated to the System Memory (1.1GB). If so, how would I do that?
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04-05-2007 05:14 AM
04-05-2007 05:14 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
One of the ways that this value can become very large is if you are using the formulae rather than using constants in some of the tunables. For example, ninode is one value that is typically hundreds of times too large based upon the formula. Ninode only applies to hfs filesystems and generally the only hfs filesystem on a box is /stand. The most inode intensive task on /stand is building kernels so that ninode = 800 or so is extremely generous.
Bill's suggestion to use asynchonous i/o is a good one. Now that you have free memory, you need to get more test data.
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04-05-2007 10:06 AM
04-05-2007 10:06 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
This is what I now see:
Sys Mem: 572mb
Buf Cache: 320mb
User Mem: 1.1gb
Free Mem: 2.1gb
Is there a way to set the User Memory or does is use more memory from the free memory when it needs more memory?
Also, while I was looking at the report I noticed that the Page Faults were quite high.
Current: 6
Cumulative: 52994
Curr Rate: 0.0
Cum Rate: 83.9
High Rate: 742.6
Is the high rate a little excessive? Is that from the reboot or should I be worried?
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04-05-2007 10:26 AM
04-05-2007 10:26 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
I think what Bill and I are both trying to tell you is that you really need to look at your SQL and especially make sure that your indices are the same. I have yet to hear you verify this.
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04-05-2007 02:07 PM
04-05-2007 02:07 PM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
User programs are totally responsible for the amount of memory they use. Unix is not like MPE where the OS dynamically allocates all available RAM to improve the integrated database. Instead, you free up extra memory and nothing will use it except the kernel's buffer cache. Almost no Unix application looks at RAM and adjusts as needed. One of the reasons is that HP-UX is a virtual memory system so if you have (for example) 4Gb of RAM plus 8Gb of swap space, you could run up to 300% more programs than you have RAM. Pretty nifty. Increase swap to 30Gb and you can run more than 25 Gb of processes in your 4Gb of RAM.
Oh, I forgot to mention that performance will be agonizingly slow. Logins in a few seconds? Not a chance -- logins may take several minutes because everything is being exchanged between RAM and swap -- a waste of time. You can add another 4Gb of RAM and adjust the Informix parameters to use more RAM which will dramatically improve performance.
Bill Hassell, sysadmin
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04-05-2007 03:46 PM
04-05-2007 03:46 PM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
He has an environment with half the horsepower, working at acceptable performance levels. So adding still more memory should not be needed as a first step, and could mask the real problem.
Jeffery needs to focus on comparing system and database parameters. Err on the side of caution at first and make them the same. Then grow some params on the new box to exploit the additional memory and cpu horse better. One significanlt different param (buffer cache settings) was already found. How did that happen? What else slipped by?
Maybe shmmax is set to 64MB on the new box and 1GB on the old one? Carefully, tediously, compare all params. system and database. You'd better be able to completely and convincingly defend any variation, or just set it back to the old value.
Hope this helps some,
Hein van den Heuvel (at gmail dot com)
HvdH Performance Consulting
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04-06-2007 04:08 AM
04-06-2007 04:08 AM
Re: Disk Bottleneck
I thought I would attach a copy of the tunable parameters (/usr/sbin/sysdef) for both servers so you can see how they are setup right now. I have made some configuration changes already that have been requested by the vendor. Could you take a look at them and let me know if you see anything that should be changed?
Thanks.