HP-UX 8.0

[Doug J]

Hope I'm posting in the right place

I've been asked to resume work on an old HP-UX 8.0 machine. Don't know much at all about HP-UX, and there is no documentation here anymore, anyway I need to add a tape drive.
Had some handwritten instructions which says to add 9145 tape drive, power down, set address to 7 using toggle switches-I did, attach HP-IB cable-I did,
reboot-I did, the type "mknod /dev/rct/0s0 c 4 0x0e400", I did.
I can't get the system to recognize the drive after several reboots, changing of tape drives address, etc. Get error message below when trying to access drive.
" /dev/rct/0s0: No such device or address "

Attached is dmesg output. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Sridhar Bhaskarla]

Doug,

I did work on 8.0 but hardly remember anything on it.

Try exploring through SAM. I remember to have seen a place where you could select the tape drive and ask it to show/create special files.

-Sri

[Michael Tully]

HPUX 8..... I've not worked on one of these since .... 1980 something.....ouch.

I can't remember if 'ioscan' was part of the OS back then...

# ioscan -fn
# lssf /dev/rct/0s0

Let's see what this turns up. This error message also will indicate that there is no tape in the drive as well.

Be aware that this OS version is not supported anymore, there will probably be no on-line docs anywhere and it is not Y2K compliant.

[Robert-Jan Goossens]

Just adding to Micheal's response if ioscan does not work, i think on 8.0 it called

# iomap

Robert-Jan.

[Helen French]

If I recall correctly, this will do the trick:

# insf -e (this will create new device files, if the device is working and connected properly)
# ioscan -fn (will tell you whether it's detected or not)

# man ioscan(1m)
# man insf(1m) - for details

[Doug J]

I found a HP-UX Reference Volume 3, HP 9000 Computers, according to it ioscan, insf, lssf, iomap are for the Series 800 only, we have a 9000/300.

Had a tape in and out of drive several times no luck.

Clean light is illuminated n the tape drive, could it be possible the drive is not recognized until the drive is cleaned? I haven't find a cleaning tape, but I will do a more thorough search.

Thanks all for your input.

Still searching for answer!

Doug

[Wodisch]

Hi,

don't remember the part number 9145, but "/dev/rct/*" is for QIC tapes only - is it one?
But even then there was "SAM" - how about starting SAM, going to "Peripheral Devices" and recreating all available tape devices???

On the the other hand: the 300s are still "supported" by OpenBSD!
Maybe you download OpenBSD3.2 from them, just to test the hardware - OpenBSD hardware detection is pretty good and if you attach a different harddisk, you cannot hurt your original one - but confirm wether your tape drive IS working (have replaced harddisks a couple of times on 300s - certainly NOT rocket sience)...

FWIW,
Wodisch

[Steven E. Protter]

I hope that whateer you are doing isn't very important, because you are probably in the only place you'll get help.

HP has pulled support later this year on HP-UX 10.20.

If what you are doing is important, it should probably not be on a machine that far out of date.

P

[Doug J]

SAM only list disks and printers, no tape drives.

If I can find another drive, I doubt it. I could try BSD 3.2.

It's not the most important thing around here, but I would like to get it working. Right now I'm just trying to certify it through our security which calls for system backups. It's a legacy system we can't get rid of (customer), 1st one on new set of security rules, thought this machine might be a good one to start with for various reasons no one would be interested in but me. I appreciate the suggestions.

[Sridhar Bhaskarla]

Hi Doug,

Your mknod should work as long you are correctly defining the minor numbers. Did you have the "tape" added into the kernel?. Does lsdev show tape and the corresponding major number as 4?.

-Sri

[Doug J]

lsdev attached..Not sure what I should be looking for, perhaps the CS80?? Don't see a 9145. If it's missing how would I go about reconfiguring the kernel. Thanks

[Sridhar Bhaskarla]

Doug,

Your "4" represents a cs80 disk. So I don't think your mknod command would work as you are trying to create a harddisk devicefile.

I don't know if HP7970/HP7971 or HP7974/HP7978 are the correct drivers for the tape drive you are adding. Try the same mknod with either 5 or 9. It could be wrong.

Also, add one more 0 to your minor number.

mknod /dev/rct/0s0 c 5 0x0e4000

I have a feeling that even the minor number is wrong. And I am finding it hard to recall the things I did 7 years back.

-Sri

[melvyn burnard]

Well what model system is this, as there are large differences at this OS version between s700 and s800.
You have to understand that support for this OS ended back in the early 90's.
There was no auto config of devices, you had to add them into hte kernel gen file, which on an s800 I recall was /etc/conf/gen/S800
You had to include quite a few statements, and at htis version you may even have had to include all parent statements including IO paths. (long time since I touched 8.x).
Then you need to run the uxgen command to build a new kernel.

[Ulrich Deiters]

I just woke up my old 318M ...

My settings are these:
in /dev/ct: b 0 0x070300
in /dev/rct: c 4 0x070300
where my tape drive has the HPIB address 3, and 7 is the ID of my HPIB bus. You need to verify that 0x0e is the correct bus ID on your system.

With /etc/lsdev you see the installed drivers. You need the CS80 driver in addition to the HPIB drivers.

Good luck!

[Andreas Voss]

Hi,

try looking at
/etc/conf/dfile
if there are all needed drivers included.
With the command
config dfile
you can create a new kernel.
Also look at /etc/newconfig/mkdev.
It's a script where you can find some information about device files for severeal peripherals.

Good luck.

[Frank Slootweg · Accepted solution]

I did a quick search (in our internal databases, but I think you will find similar information in the ITRC).

It looks like Ulrich's information is correct, i.e.

mknod /dev/rct/c0 c 4 0xSCAD00

where 4 is the character major number of the CS80 driver (see your lsdev output), SC is the "Select Code" of the HP-IB interface, probably 7, is mentioned during bootup (i.e. the messages from the boot ROM or/and kernel), and AD is the HP-IB address of the tape drive.

Another tip I found: If you have a /dev/update.src device, then, if nothing has changed, that is probably already set up correctly. If so, just *link* it do the desired name, i.e. "ln /dev/update.src /dev/rct/0s0". /dev/update.src was created by the installation process and used for installing/updating software with the update(1M) command.

[Doug J]

Linking /dev/update.src to /dev/rct/0s0 did the trick.
Many thanks to all who responded, especially Frank Slootweg.

While I'm here...I started a fbackup with the following command "fbackup -f - -i / | tcio -oe /dev/rct/0s0 /-I /tmp/index". I'm hoping the syntax is correct to backup the entire system starting at /, is that correct? I'm a little concerned because the fbackup is running and using processor time, however the tape drive has not moved, and it's been about an hour now. I can see and hear the drives being accessed. Nothing else is running. There are /etc/fbackuprdr and a /etc/backupwrtr processes running. Is this normal..is there some sort of validation or something going on and the writing out to tape takes place later???

[Frank Slootweg]

> While I'm here...I started a fbackup with the following command
> "fbackup -f - -i / | tcio -oe /dev/rct/0s0 /-I /tmp/index".

If this is literally what you typed, then I think it is wrong. The "-I /tmp/index" part should go with fbackup, i.e. before the pipe ("|") symbol. Also I do not understand the "/" before the "-I ...".

I don't remember how to use tcio, but assuming the tcio part is OK, the command would be:

fbackup -I /tmp/index -f - -i / | tcio -oe /dev/rct/0s0

About the 'hang', i.e. fbackup (rdr/wrtr) busy but the tape not moving:

There have been numerous fbackup-'hang' problems and associated patches. So check if you have any/the_latest fbackup/frecover patches.

IIRC, you can check filesets, i.e. also patches, on 8.X by looking in /etc/filesets or in /system or by using the interactive rmfn(1M) command. Be careful with the latter, because, as the name implies, it is for removing functions, but you can also use it to view what is installed, i.e. rmfn(1M) is the 'opposite' of update(1M).

Perhaps it is best to test fbackup and tcio seperately, i.e. something like:

fbackup -I /tmp/index -f - -i /etc/passwd >/dev/null

(i.e. does fbackup work at all?)

fbackup -I /tmp/index -f - -i / >/dev/null

(i.e. can fbackup make a full backup to /dev/null?)

tar cvf - /etc/passwd | tcio -oe /dev/rct/0s0

(i.e. can something else, i.e. tar in this case, write to the tape drive?)

[Doug J]

Frank, thanks for your input, looks like my syntax was wrong for the fbackup. I tried the fbackup to /dev/null and that works fine. Tried tar to /dev/rct/0s0 that works fine also. Seems to be a problem with the tcio, get error "cannot write file mark tape /dev/rct/0s0; errno 6" can't find anything on google about this. (Why isn't there a comp.unix.hp-ux on google? Just wondering.)
See attached for what did and didn't work.
Started a fbackup and redirected to /dev/rt/0s0 that's running now (about 30 minutes, tape hasn't moved yet.)

[Frank Slootweg]

You say that fbackup to /dev/null works fine, but the one for / says "cd fbackup(1028): received a SIGTERM; cleaning up and exiting". Did you terminate that one? If so, you still don't know if it does not hang. I advise to add the "-v" option and wait until it at least writes some of the path/file names to the terminal.

With regards to tcio: The "tcio(1020): cannot write file mark tape /dev/rct/0s0; errno 6" can have all kind of causes. Bad tape, dirty head (error/clean light on?), wrong tape (9145 can not *write* 16 track tapes, only read them), HP-IB cable/cable-length/loading problems, etc..
So I think you still have a problem with the tape drive. Do not understand why you do not have it when you use tar without tcio. I advise to try to read back the tar tape to see if it really wrote to the tape.

I advise to add the "vV" options to tcio. This will make it tell what it does and will eliminate the verify, which, AFAIK, is uncessesary.

The HP-related Usenet Newsgroups are all under comp.sys.hp, specifically comp.sys.hp.hpux.

Is this system networked to another, preferably HP, UNIX system with a tape drive? If so, you could make remote backup via SAM/fbackup.

[Doug J]

Yes, the fbackup to /dev/null works fine, I did kill it. Sorry, I didn't mention that. When I did a fbackup to /dev/null for /etc/passwd the fbackup completed and wrote the index file to /tmp/index so fbackup is working. I ran a tar of /etc/passwd and it worked fine, I could read the tar with the tvf command so the drive can be written to and read (see attached). Fbackup started yesterday, did something after I left, but died (see attached). Started another fbackup this morning some 6-7 hours ago, tape drive hasn't moved. Had some errors in dmesg about CS-80 drive (also attached). Looks like I'm out of luck!!

[Frank Slootweg]

Yes, you seem to have a problem with the tape drive or/and tape, but I think also with fbackup.

Going through your attachment:

First fbackup, *without* tcio, gives a write error, so the tape (drive) problem is not only related to tcio.

tar of /etc/passwd, without tcio' to/from tape work, so it looks like you have the right type of tape (HP, formatted, 32-track).

dmesg also mumbles "uninitialized_media write_protect". Make very, very sure that the tape is not write-protected.

Other dmesg messages: Make sure that your HP-IB cabling is OK. HP-IB is *very* strict in that. I.e. only one 'string' from device to next device, *no* 'star' layouts, *short* cables (HP-IB cable length is very limited, 2 or 1 meter per load), right type of speed setting (low/high) for *all* devices on the buse, etc..

Earlier you said "Clean light is illuminated". Is this still the case? Have you cleaned the drive? (IIRC, you had to do that with swabs and alcohol, *not* with a cleaning tape.)

Last hanging fbackup: As I mentioned before, check/get/install the latest fbackup/frecover patches.

What about my question about the system being networked?

[Doug J]

Frank,

Finally got it working..(see attached for command that worked) not sure what did the trick..but it still ran an awful long time, before writing anything to tape, when I came in this morning it seemed to be asking for another tape. One question when fbackup asks "To continue, type device name..." I'm assuming that it means to insert a new tape to continue is that correct, the first tape was full?

I appreciate so much the time and patience you have taken to help this lost soul.

Now if I can find enough tapes to actually complete the backup I'll be in business. I only have two 650ft and three 150ft.

Thanks again, Frank.

Doug

[Bill Hassell]

tcio's purpose is to buffer data to the tape drive. The 9144 and 9145 were the first streamers with very small buffers. You can specify the tape drive directly to fbackup (for testing) without tcio, but the drive will not stream and even /etc/passwd might take 5 minutes to backup. Now that the backup is working, you'll need to feed in more tapes. The 650 tape holds a whopping 67megs while the 150's hold about 16megs.

The (very long) delay between starting fbackup and actually writing to the tape is absolutely normal. fbackup finds every file and directory, creates an index in RAM and then starts the backup. The 300 series computer is a Motorola 68k box that predates PA-RISC machines.

With so few tapes, you may need to reduce the scope of the backup, or at least remove or zero out large log files that are not needed. Look at /etc for big files:

ll /etc | sort -rnk5 | more

Check /dev in case someone accidently stored a data file there:

find /dev -type f -exec ll {} \;

There should be no data files in /dev. Look at /usr/adm for big log files:

ll /usr/adm | sort -rnk5

NOTE: The 1/4 data cartridges look identical to non-HP tapes. However, the 914x tape drives are actually random access drives (they use the CS80 disk driver) and must have pre-formatted tapes. This formatting requires very specialized equipment (the drive cannot format the tape) so unformatted tapes will be rejected, and *never* degauss the tapes you have or they will be useless. The tape drive is a bootable, random access device and the system doesn't know it's really a tape. As you might expect, it is VERY slow but you can actually run HP-UX with just the tape drive.

The good news is that you may be able to pick up a box of HP cartridge tapes for a few bucks at computer junk store.

[Frank Slootweg]

Hi Doug,

I am glad that it finally works.

As to why it did not work before? Perhaps you did not wait long enough. At one time you waited at least an hour, but, as Bill mentioned, fbackup can be very slow to startup, especially if there are many files and especially on a slow machine like a Series 300. IIRC, the early fbackup versions also had severe problems if there was (too) little memory (trashing, paging?).