Java On HP-UX 7.x

[jcarr5150]

Yes. I know, HP-UX 7.x is ancient, but I'm at a place where it's still alive and well. Can any version of a Java SDK work on HP-UX 7.x?

What's the lowest HP-UX version a Java SDK can run on? I think it may be HP-UX 10.0, but I could be wrong.

I'm trying to convince mgt we need to upgrade, but if I can't, is there a Java SDK for 7.x?

Thanks in advance.

[Torsten.]

HP-ux 7 is from 1990, Java from 1995, IMHO no chance.


BTW, on what hardware you run this???

[OldSchool]

well...here's what hp has listed as supported:

http://h20392.www2.hp.com/portal/swdepot/displayProductInfo.do?productNumber=HPUXJAVAHOME

the earliest supported OS listed is 11.11 aka 11v1, which I thought was out of support now.

The earliest release of hpux I ever dealt with was 9.02 (?) on 715 workstations. I can't imagine anything that runs 7.x being able to run anything newer than 10.20 or maybe 11.0, both of which are also out of support.

As I recall, there was a 10.10 release that may have been specific to workstations.

Finding media would be a challenge, you'd have to go the e-bay route or similar. If it even has a chance of working on the existing hardware, who knows....if it did, I'd buy lottery tickets.

[OldSchool]

"BTW, on what hardware you run this???"

yeah...what he said!

[Torsten.]

"I'm trying to convince mgt we need to upgrade..."

For how many years do you try this now?

;-)


From wikipedia:

7.x (1990)
Support for 300/400, 600/700 (in 7.03) /800 HP systems


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-UX


Another interesting link about 25 years of 11i:

http://h20338.www2.hp.com/hpux11i/cache/611872-0-0-225-121.html

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi:

As far as the 10.x releases went, both 10.01 and 10.10 ran on the 800-series HP9000's. The 10.20 release appeared shortly thereafter. The 9x-to-10x transition saw the redrafting of the filesystem layout. A worth-while read from a historical standpoint is, in my opinion:

http://docs.hp.com/en/5963-8942/5963-8942.pdf

Regards!

...JRF...

[Laurent Menase]

You will have probably a big perf problem.

[jcarr5150]

Hi guys.

Thanks for your responses. As I get more details, I'll pass them along, but I'm new to this company and this is how they've been operating, well, I guess since 1990. :)

What's changing their tune was they thought they could install a third party product and couldn't, not to mention they couldn't even install WebSphere MQ 7. This is all before me.

Why am I here you may ask? I just need to feed my family and I took what was open in my traveling area.

Thanks again for your responses. They will help.

[Pete Randall]

Laurent makes an excellent point. Even if you could find a version of Java to run on 7.x, the chances that it would run effectively would be pretty minimal. There would be nowhere near enough CPU power to handle the load and nowhere near enough memory either.

I would say your only hope of incorporating Java into your processes is going to have to involve some newer hardware and newer operating systems.


Pete

[Steven E. Protter]

Shalom,

This has to be a joke.

Right? HP-UX 7.0? The OS pre-dates Java by a decade.

Java is only released for supported HP-UX versions the lowest of which is 11.11

As I recall 1.4 Java ran on 11.00

Before that, I don't remember.

SEP

[jcarr5150]

No joke guys. I'm telling the truth. I'll get the hardware specs and pass them on. These guys are a small retailer in the New England area.

Based on my short time here, like a few days, they only upgrade when they need to. I'm just as supprised as you...and I'm here!

[Robert-Jan Goossens]

Hi,
--
they only upgrade when they need to
--
Well this is a perfect moment to tell them they need an upgrade. The earliest hpux java version available for hpux was 1.1.8 on 10.20.

Kind regards,
Robert-Jan

[Robert-Jan Goossens]

forgot the link to the HPUX Java Archived Releases Release Notes.

http://docs.hp.com/en/JAVAARCHRN/index.html

[Olivier Masse]

I once saw 7.X running on a production workstation and that was in Jan 2000. Nobody even knew it was there, since it was same as you, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But it broke all right, it wasn't fixable and this cost a lot in lost production.

Advise your retailer to upgrade and ditch whatever custom application they have and get a new one. Chances are good you don't even need to run HP-UX anymore.

Good luck

[Bill Hassell]

This comes up in small shops where a very old machine (in this case, probably 20+ years) works just fine for the application from 20 years ago. Unlike some machines that easily run for 50 years, software is, well, soft. That means that people incorrectly assume that an old computer will run new software. This needs to be explained to the CEO that just because you have a typewriter, it will not work as a cellphone. Tell the CEO to lock the computer (as it already has) into the 1980 software and buy a new one for a new application.

If the CEO has tried to use an old scanner on Vista, your job will be much simpler. Ask the CEO if someone tried installing MS Office on and WIndows 3.1 machine. Java will CRIPPLE your machine even it could run on 7.x. You will not have anything close to the minimum memory (2000 megs or so) and the CPU is probably 20-50 Mhz rather than 750-1000 Mhz. SO between swap and CPU speed, it could take an hour before the application starts. Today's computers are 1/2 the original price of the old machine with 20-50 times better performance.

[Dennis Handly]

>Bill: lock the computer into the 1980 software and buy a new one for a new application.

And this would be easy if the new application doesn't have to talk to the old one.

[dirk dierickx]

wtf, what do they use this box for anyway? nothing much can be running on it. they could migrate to linux which would be unlimited times better then hpux 7 (can't even begin to imagine how sad this OS must be) and be unlimited times faster and would allow them to do fancy 'new' stuff like java.

[OldSchool]

your employer is, as noted previously, running on borrowed time. You need to find out what, if any, off-the-shelf software is installed and running on that box, as that may be it's sole reason to exist.

Having determined what's running, see if new versions are available, and if so, for what OSes/Versions. My biggest concern would be that you have some COTS that is no longer available, but your employer "likes" it, hence you run 20yr old hardware.

If it is running COTS and they vendor / product is now defunct, then you will be faced with purchasing new hardware and migrating to new/different application.

Also, take note of any specialized hardware in use. As old as it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of real honest-to-goodness glass terminals connected to something like a DTC. If so, I don't know if the DTC management stuff is even supported anymore.

In any case, a failure of the existing hardware could force a migration, and the migration process is probably going to be non-trivial (ie weeks to months). Doing it after the hardware folds could kill the business, depending upon how critical the apps it runs are. Besides, the smallest current avaiable box should absolutely run rings around whatever hardware is currently running....

[Laurent Menase]

an other reason,
hpux 7.0 doesn't know anything about threads....

the other possibility if they want to keep their old system, keep old systems with old application, buy a new system for new applications.

[Wim Rombauts]

I'm affraid there may be a bit of a problem ...

If this machine is running in-house developed software, it is probably written in a technology that no longer exists, that noone knows anymore and that noone can read, and the people who once created it have long ago left the company.
"Upgrading" here means : Start writing again from scratch to mimic old behaviour. This will take a lot of time and effort.

If this machine is running 3rd party software, then your current version will be so old, that probably no migration path to a currently available versions exists.

I hope you are lucky enough to have an old software that still has an easy migration path.

And ... the question that burns on everyones lips : What the hell is running on that machine ?

[OldSchool]

"If this machine is running in-house developed software, it is probably written in a technology that no longer exists..."

I forgot about that one...but it would probably be in some dialect of C, fortran or cobol. They're still around. I'm not saying its easy, but it is possible.

In either case, this thing is a potential business-killer if it breaks

[Florian Heigl (new acc)]

I suggest we all have a minute of silence for a piece of hard- and software that apparently worked just fine for this many years.
Yes, the customer won't have much of a chance than fully replacing it, but I really admire systems that have all their quirks worked out for a decade and ever since only did one thing: Work!

Reminds me of the old ugly mainframe that got phased out in 2003 at my customer's site. Hell no, i didnt want to maintain it or port applications to it, but nonetheless: it worked absolutely flawless.

Now we're replacing our hp-ux boxes with some linux kit and guess what, it's quirky all over.

Maybe this is just my christams depression talking, but I think I'll look through some of my more evil IS books and see if there's a formula that shows how an application gets outdated as the final bugs get resolved.


On a more practical side - if they can waste on a java app, they can surely waste money on someone (you? :) that does a proper IO subsystem that feeds the data into the old hp-ux 7.x box, and for example records all transactions and data into a second (database?) backend on a more current os - then they have a slight chance of migrating and moreover you get to actually find out what the app *does*!

Merry Christmas!

[OldSchool]

well...for detailed info on where MQ 7 can run, see here:

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/integration/wmq/requirements/index.html

or start here and navigate to "Distributed Platforms" on the right side of the screen:

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/integration/wmq/v7/

they require at least 11.23, so maybe you can drag them (albeit kicking and screaming, into the new mellenium).