Move up and manage or stay a techie?

[John Poff]

Hi,

I'm just curious. How many of you have been offered opportunities to move up
the corporate ladder into management, and how many of you have decided against it. I've managed programmers, hardware techs, LAN admins, and systems administrators before. When I took my current job, I decided I had been a manager long enough and being a techie is more fun, so that is the track I have taken here, and I don't regret it. I don't miss all the meetings, memos, e-mails, keeping track of everybody, keeping everybody busy and motivated, etc.

I'd like to hear from those of you who reached that crossroads in their career.
Which way did you go, and why? If you're wondering why this should be a topic
here on the forum, well, it has a direct impact here. I can name at least two
or three of the major contributing gurus here who have had to curtail their
time here because they have accepted more management responsibility in their jobs.

I'm not saying that moving up is a bad thing, or a good thing, but an individual
decision each person has to make in their career. I'd just like to hear what
drives each of you and what factors you weighed when you came to that decision.

JP

[Pete Randall · Accepted solution]

JP,

I had a similar experience to yours. I was "promoted" to a supervisory role. However, my manager was so anal in her ways that I wasn't allowed to do anything but be a relay for her. I was just a spokesperson and not a very happy one. As our staff has shrunk over the years, both the manager and the supervisee have since moved on and I'm left alone in my techie role and much, much happier.

Perhaps in the right circumstance management could feel right for me, but my one experience with it has pretty much soured me on the idea. I'll stay where I am, thanks.


Pete

[Steven E. Protter]

I agree with you John. I consider myself a craftsman, highly skilled, always learning, trying to refine and hone my skills. I have to do some management things, deal with operations staff and the like. I even get to go to the occaisional management meeting and offer "sage" advice.

I like being the guy that does the work of making systems run as securely and efficiently as possible. I'm proud of the fact that $200 million in annual revenue passes through the infrastructure that I am responsible for.

There are advantages however to being in management. There are several projects that effect my work that aren't getting adequate priority. Disk array changes for ServiceGuard and PVLINKS isn't getting the manpower resources needed to finish those projects. I suppose in management I could make the case that every one of those $200 million is important and projects effecting that money should be done first.

I think I'll stay a craftsman. Better for my stress levels.

SEP

[MarkSyder]

I've managed staff in the past, but I'd rather be doing interesting work than be supervising the people doing the interesting work.

Mark Syder (like the drink but spelt different)

[RAC_1]

I have always been thinkg about this. I would say, at some point I must go to the managerial level. How long you can be a techie??? It is nice feeling contrlloing the systems, making sure that they run smotthly and get 100 % out of it, but Who does not want to be manager, deciding what hardware/software comes/goes out??

And being a manager does not mean that, your techi skills take backseat.

Just my thought.

Anil

[Rick Garland]

A techie life for me.

Done the spiel of meetings, personnel, managerial politics, etc. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again.

I find there are so many advantages to staying a techie. I feel there is much more responsibility and accountability because it is me they come after if something goes wrong.
I have a good deal of satisifaction knowing that I am the person who runs the show, not necessilarily the dept manager.

Having better defined boundaries of your job responsibilities can give you greater freedom and happeniness in your job.

[Pete Randall]

JP,

After seeing some of the other responses, maybe I should qualify my response a little further.

In some ways, I am in management. I manage myself, because my manager gives me pretty much free rein. I manage my environment, because there's no one else here, so I get to make the choices when it comes to hardware and software. I manage my own budget. I get to all the fun parts of being a manager, yet I remain a techie and get to have all the fun that that entails, too.

It's really more like the best of both worlds, I guess.


Pete

[Chris Wilshaw]

I'm currently a techie team leader (so I only get the lower level management reporting side of things, and the more technically oriented meetings just now).

No immediate plans to head into the true management route (I'm far happier when I'm breaking [and on the odd occasion] fixing systems). Some managers I know spend their whole working day in meetings - to say that would do my head in is a gross understatement.

Given a totally free choice, I'd love to stay in the technical arena - it's more suited to my mentality - I want to be able to do the stuff myself, I want to be able to play around with various forms of scripting etc - I want to be the person that pulls out that disk, and gets that fractional second of panic when you say to yourself "was that REALLY the right one".

I couldn't consider project management either (again, the role's just not got enough of an active involvement in the processes for me).

To some degree, age, family responsibilities and lifestyle come into it - although I know a number of people that are quite happy to be a techie, and to take all the on-call and long hours issues that can come with it, while still having a full and happy life outside work.

Does money matter? Well of course it does - I'm not deluded enough to think that it makes no impact on the decision, although here, management don't get overtime - techies do, and there's often a chance for a hefty boost to the salary through it. Is the difference between the techie and management basic package enough to make the choice easy? I'll tell you if/when I find out.

[John Payne_2]

JP,

I have to admit that I have never been in the position to make this decision, but I have also made it very clear that I do not want this to happen to me. (We reorg often enough here that you never know what will happen next week.) I am perfectly happy where I am, and do not want the extra burden of having to deal with the overhead of meetings, dealing with co-workers problems, etc. Being in management would very likely make me less happy in my employment. I am paid enough, why make myself miserable?

Luckily (or not so much), I have so much work to do all the time, that if I had to dedicate any portion of my time to overhead, bad things would happen. Management knows this, and they know I don't want to be in a management postion that I should be safe for a while.

The closest I get is mentoring student employees, but that is a working relationship, and a management relationship.

John

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

So far I have hapily managed to stay out of management, but in control

I'm a real tech. By heart. I don't want to manage, and to be honoust, I might not even be able to do management, because I'm to easily dragged into the vortex of tech problems again, just because that is what I like to do. Solve and conquer.

I'm now in a position that I can guide/coach colleages, but I don't want to be their `superior'. It also gives me a much better feeling that they do what I want because I was able to convince them of the betterness of my solution, then to be able to say "because [i]I[/i] want it that way"

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn [ probably into tech for the rest of his life ]

[Mark Greene_1]

I did the management thing for a year and a half back when I was doing application programmer. What I discovered about myself is that I cannot let go of being hands on. I'm not the professional management type. In my current job I'm the lead Unix & Linux admin. While I'd like to have more of a role with projects in the planning stages, I am given opportunities for input and direction at the implementation stage, which helps things from going to far off course.

In the mean time I've also taken on SAN administration. So as long as I am being given the opportunity to learn new skills I do see myself going anywhere anytime soon.

mark

[Geoff Wild]

Havn't been offered move up to management - yet - I don't think I would take it - yet.

I'm 41, HP-UX Admin since 1993 - and enjoy it still!

I do more of an architect role now, delegating lesser tasks to junior admins. I look after change management for the team I'm on - and also assists/teach others with less experience then I.

I know as far as salaray goes, I'm almost at the limit for a Techie...

Maybe when I'm 45 I may start thinking about management - until then I'll stick to System instead of People Administration. :)

Rgds...Geoff

PS: besides, I want to be an Olympian first :)

[Jeff_Traigle]

I've had the opportunity too.

It would have been the only way to get out of my previous role at a manufacturing plant since the practice of the company was to hire contractors to do the techie work at the corporate level. If you were their salaried employee at that level, you were expected to be a project manager or manager.

Likewise, when we were outsourced to Big Blue, most of the emphasis seemed to be on getting people into management or project management positions... leaving the techie work to contractors or supplemental employees who got lousy pay with no benefits.

One of my previous supervisors offered to let me take over his role for a while on several occasions. He (and others I've worked with) thought I would be a great manager because I actually understand the technology. (I'm sure we've all had our share of dealing with managers who have no business managing IT.) But, like everyone else here so far, I like doing, not meeting, talking, and passing paperwork about doing... not to mention dealing with the constant political games. Of course, I think responses would be skewed heavily in this direction anyway since only the techies are likely to hang out here to solve problems. Managers are off in their meetings after all. :)

Could I do it and be successful? Absolutely. Would I be happy doing it? Probably not unless I have an unforeseen change of personality.

There are, of course, down sides to being a techie, too. But those are items for another thread at another time.

[Dave Hutton]

I would seriously consider moving to a management position, however I know I'm probably not management material.

I'm guessing I'm in the minority here.

I guess in a nutshell the main reason I would move on, is my personal life has changed.
Being single I think it would be an easier choice.

I no longer have time to sit and research about new technologies. To play around and try things. I don't have time at work to do these things either.
After hour and weekend support has reached an all time high. Unlike someone else mentioned. I don't get compensated for it. Looking at the amount of experience I have and my salary I know I'm way on the low end. Or as I rather think, Iâ m a bargain.

It's really not about the money though. It's about time.

D

[Victor BERRIDGE]

Hi,
No I was never offered the chance, but if I were, would have refused, the fun is beeing techie (was in a previous life a maths teacher for kids...) that said, I did live better times, when a project was given to you (implementation, architecture, the choice of plateform ...well with the project you inherited of the budget...) small budget but what fun trying to do the most with less that 100K$
Now I have to accept whatever my superiors decides (that means no XX ) and have to think BigB or HELLAS, mind you I know others here who have to think MS (are you here Robert?)
But then who knows things can change again?
The fun in being techie, when nothing is working anymore and you are told now that you can do what you want (I used to start in my previous situation my asking the boss to get me a pizza...and would wait for it...)

All the best
Victor

[Tom Danzig]

After 15 years, I left a company about 6 years ago to persue a career in UNIX. I found myself "playing around" with the workstations we used because it was fun. My next logical step there was account manager and that wasn't for me.

After doing UNIX S/A work for a few years, I have always avoided supervisoty/management roles. I much prefer to deal with systems than people. Computers may get "sick", but they never call in "sick".

I don't like to manage people and prefer the challenges that hands-on S/A work provides. You can do this for years and you're still always learning something new.

My $0.02 anyway.

[Sundar_7]

It is way too early for me to even think of getting in to a management position.

Not sure how many will agree with me, but I do believe it is easier to replace a manager than a techie :-).

If they get kicked out of the job, it is highly likely that a techie will land in a new job much faster than if he was a pure managerial level guy.

I believe both positions have + and - but I cannot think of being a techie when I am 45+. That would be the right time to climb the ladder I think.

My take would be a techie for 2 more decades :-)

[Colin Topliss]

I intend to stay a techie until the day I retire!

I *know* that most managers would be unable to cope when a problem crops up - especially on the systems I tend to work with. As a manager, its hard to keep up with everything thats going on because most spend so much time in meetings. I kind of get satisfaction knowing that I'll be the first person to get called when the proverbial hits the fan!

Mind you, those 03:00am calls (when they occur) can be a real pain.... :-)

Oh, and a manager who *thinks* he knows a good technical solustion and approves it before talking to his techies can be a bit of a problem.... don't ever want to end up like that!

[Yogeeraj_1]

hello JP,

Am in a position much as described by Steven and Pete above.

As a techie, you are already managing your infrastructure without maybe taking purchase decisions.

You will all agree that it is just a matter of hierarchy of needs. Looking for esteem or in quest of self-actualisation?

well, management of people is much more difficult tasks... you just can't "rm -rf" that easily ;)

cheers
YD

[Michael Schulte zur Sur]

Hi,

when I was approached by my boss' boss to move to another location it was also offered to me to take charge of the to be created unix group. However it did not work out and when the time came to select a team leader someone else was chosen. Seeing him and the manager who got me here I am happy. They are often stressed out. They run here and there and then all this politics and tactics. No thank you and besides at the moment I am too no management material. I am fighting to get a better grip on myself and the way I manage the time and tasks. The only thing I miss are real challenges. Our hardware is only medium range and the good stuff is out of my reach.

Michael

[Ravi_8]

Hi,

I hate becoming a manager, it's full of politics. Finally a person who doesn't know the definition of OS will be the manager, and we (techies) have to describe him(how it works, what it is et all). Mean time I hate working on same platform for a long time. as a manager he should be able to identify the skills in a techie and offer him next goals to achieve instead of asking him to do same routine old job(looking into OS problems and hardware problems).
I can describe it as : If you have good political skills along with technical skills you can be a good manager.

[Jan van den Ende]

Hi,

firstly, I think this stream should be better placed in Business Related Issues, than being restricted to HPUX (or maybe a pointer straem in the other forums?)

I too am one of those who has 'snuffed' of a manageral position. It was the worst half year of my working life, and when a position in Systems Technology became available, I fought for it. I was told that although that would be a promotion, it was a dead end, so disadvisable.
Still I did it, and I am glad for it again every time I get reminded.
And nowadays the technical stuff is mostly so specialistic, that management really has no choice but to give us lots of freedom in our work.
And everytime a new manager decides he HAS to have more direct influence and do more steering, (s)he is warned about the extra risks that implies, and usually they get the message after one or two pertinent orders that turn out wrong (in such case: DO protest in advance in writing, and CC that to those about to be hurt). The one who refused to give us free reign was after the 3rd issue relieved of command.

So, if it is your mind-set: MUCH healthier life as a techie!

Cheers.

Have one on me

Jan.

[harry d brown jr]

Here's a quote of mine: 'brain dead, management ready'

I'd probably be a horrible manager today because I can't stand incompetence, ignorance, lying or laziness, thus I'd probably get into trouble for firing too many people. I've been a manager of small groups, which isn't too bad, because you can still dig into issues and solve problems without having to worry about all of the HR stuff that's required for larger groups.

I've thought about being a manager again, but I still have a few brain cells functioning (No, the Wild Turkey hasn't killed them all yet). Being a manager would take me away from doing what I do best: solve problems. I just can't imagine relegating that to someone else unless that person had the desire and drive that I have.

It's important for companies to recognize that some people want or should remain technical, meaning they want or should stay out of management. This means that companies need to have a upward promotion path for techies - compensating them in money, benefits and authority.

Personally I think I have hit the jackpot where I am at now. I'm the systems (mostly Unix systems) weenie in the Research & Development organization. Though I do spend a lot of time writing position and research papers, it allows me to be able to go outside the norm and develop solutions without the encumbrance of the old school mentality â â weâ ve always have done it this wayâ . Man I hate that. People need to lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

Good luck!

live free o

[Marco Santerre]

This is a very interesting thread and I also will answer on that one.

Lots of reason could make a guy want (or not want) to become a manager (or stay a techie). I guess it becomes to each individual to decide what's best for him/her. Some of these reasons will involve family life, salary, love of work, expectations, career goals, life goals, age, etc..

I know, in my case, age is a factor. I'm in the early thirties. The question I often ask myself is.. Do I want to stay a techie for another ~30 years? The answer I often come up with is no. So, now the question remains: Where do I go from here then?

Back when I was young (read: stupid and foolish and without any knowledge of the real world), I thought I would be president one day. Well, things have changed, I dont' know that I would want to be a president. Heck, I don't know if I would want to be a vice-president or a director for that matter.

Like a lot of people have expressed already, I think I wouldn't mind moving to a managerial position but keep the techie part of things in there. So maybe, a team lead position would be enough for me. And if I hit manager/director near my retirement, I think that would be good.

But again, experiences might change my views and once I get a team lead position, I might simply want to go back down to techie.

I think I got the skills to lead people, but my father had the skills too and got burnt by the red tape and other things like that and wanted nothing to do with managerial positions afterward.

I think I would go up.. just not too high..

[Joe Mendoza]

JP,
I have to laugh. I am 41 years old and have no desire to be in managment. Being 41 you run into younger guys just getting started the first thing they say is I want to be a manager. All they see is the title and not the responsibility. I am perfectly ok with being the techie.

JM