POLL: Stats to drop BSF points

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

No points for every answer (unless you come with an eye opener)

POLL POLL POLL POLL

Now that Alex has a new web site with all my forum stats nicely accessable for all of you, I am willing to re-think the point total point.

To my knowledge, there are only two parts in the forum: "ITRC" and "BSF", on members pages refered to as "IT resource center forums" and "business support forums".

If I drop the second part (I can, I already tested that). Many people will drop in rank, but the congrats will be more appropriate.

The fetching will need some safe-points, and it will be a bit slower, since I currently also check against the full-list, but the guts are not your concern.

Opinions? (Pete does not have to answer, I know he wants the BSF dropped)

POLL POLL POLL POLL

(I also hope that the moderators count this as an on-topic post)

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn

[Pete Randall]

I'm going to answer anyway:


PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!!



Pete

[Alan Meyer_4]

well, this IS an ITRC forum... So the stats should reflect ITRC points... Just my $.02...

[Geoff Wild]

Yes - please drop BSF from the ITRC stats.

Though, for those that are BSF, maybe have a stats for them as well?

That is, have 2 stats pages - one for ITRC and one for BSF.

Thanks...Geoff

PS - Keep up the good work!

[Jeff Schussele]

I would have no objections to dropping the BSF points.

Rgds,
Jeff

[Robert-Jan Goossens_1]

Hi Merijn,

In my opinion these "points" are separate, hence my request a few months ago to remove me from the congrats list. Besides I don't think it is respectful to our colleagues in the BSF to have members listed as "wizards" or "kings" etc, when they have own titles in the BSF forum.

Thanks,
Robert-Jan

[Steven E. Protter]

I am not totally in favor of dropping BSF points.

The bottom line is BSF has accomplished a lot and had an impact.

I would favor a solution whereby there would be separation and stats were compiled seperately for both systems.

I would further favor that ALL users in BSF be included.

I know that your participation is primarily here and thats why you started running stats.

I would further note that since BSF was included in all prior stats runs, the transistion would skew the data and cause rankings to change suddenly.

SEP

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

No, Dropping them means no more stats in the BSF, though I have this evil plan ...

Basically it would boil down to *all* members are store in my pseudo DB, and I can see both ITRC and BSF in the DB, but the generated lists (and thus all history/archive) will only reflect ITRC.

My main reason to not go beyond that is that I don't want the list to be changed anymore.

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn

[Pete Randall]

SEP,

The data is already skewed. People are supposedly promoted on Merijn's list when, in fact, they are sometimes hundreds of points away from the next hat. We need to decide whether these are, as the name states, ITRC Forums Statistics or not.

As Merijn says regarding congrats postings in his FAQ ( http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/stats.html ):

"Since it's rather obvious that the members in the Buisiness Forum do not appreciate these metrics, I will not post there."

If BSF members don't even appreciate the stats, why should they be included?


Pete

[Alex Lavrov.]

I think it should be dropped, only if you can make the change backwards too. To keep the data consistent.

Alex.

[V. Nyga]

Also I'll *loose* some points, I prefer a pure ITRC stat.
Especially for congrats starter it would be easier then ...


Volkmar
*who keeps on foruming*

[Rick Garland]

Drop em...

As previously stated, this is ITRC

[John Poff]

Hi,

It's always been confusing to have BSF and ITRC points together. Since they are two separate forums with two completely different point/hat levels, I vote to drop them from the stats.

It never fails. Whenever things get dull around here, just start talking about the points. :)

JP

[Mel Burslan]

I agree with dropping BSF stats as well. This is technology related support forum whereas the other side is more business oriented. I was not aware of the non-appreciation of the stats over there as I am not a frequent visitor of the dark side but if they do not appreciate, why bother ?

[DCE]

I would like to see the BSF portion dropped (or the stats kept seperate). As others have said, this is a technical forum, and it would be nice if the points reflected the technical knowledge shared with others.

The points awarded within this forum are just that - points. There is no reward/compensation, monetary or otherwise, that I know of for obtaining hats, so no one should suffer if their ranks change a bit.

Dave

[A. Clay Stephenson]

Put me in the "I don't care" column -- or better still the "much ado about nothing" column.

[TwoProc]

No BSF stats for totalling this area. Suggest either drop them or separate them.

[Florian Heigl (new acc)]

I think the Business Support Forums should be included, the people there have a much harder time aquiring their points, and I think it's just fair to show them some respect by including them.

Just my $.02

[Steven Clementi]

Considering the fact that one's forum profile includes both ITRC and BSF data, I feel that the statistics should reflect both support forums. I do NOT think they should be combined as they are currently though.

How extensive would it be to change the format a bit and display dual entries for those that utilize both forums?

That is, add in a new column or 2 to split ITRC and BSF points to show accurate counts. Keep the stats one page (since you download all the info to one database anyway) and either continue to show only promo's and almost's for ITRC based on real points (not combined) OR add in promo's and almost's for BSF as well.

Alex would obviously have to add some icons to his site and add a few columns as well.

The short fact remains, the BSF can be just as technical as the ITRC. Many of the questions I and many others have answered in the BSF have been technical based. Many of the questions we address in ITRC are business based. Yes, I believe I can show examples if need be.

Now... the real question is...

Why am I willing to pay you .02 cents for my thoughts when your going to give me a penny for them anyway? ;o)


Steven

[Kurt Beyers.]

I hardly ever visit the BSF and my searches remain limited to the ITRC forums.

But the people that contribute to the BSF part deserve the same respect as the posters to the ITRC forums. So I'm not in favor for dropping the BSF forums.

I understand that Procura doesn't want the extra workload of creating two seperate statistics, so just leave them as they are now.

The statistics are now across the ITRC and BSF forums which is good too. I didn't realize eg that Laura was such a great contributor at the BSF forums.

The points in the statistics do not always match the rankings in the ITRC/BSF forums, but it is rather easy to check the profile of a 'promoted' member in the stats to make sure that he meets the requirements in the ITRC/BSF forums too.

Thanks again at Procura to start with the stats and the new cooperation with Alex. It is really a great and much appreciated contribution.

And a request at HP once more to create a seperate section for the congratulations threads. I like them a lot, and they are a part of the forums, but the HP-General section shouldn't be filled with them.

Kurt

[John Payne_2]

Throw me into the same column as Clay.

John

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi Merijn:

I'll say "drop 'em", for the historical bias that the Forums were once a "pure" technology arena. Besides, as already mentioned, it seems that members of the classic ITRC unit are the only ones who care. Segregate the ITRC from the BSF statistics and be done with it.

I wasn't going to respond to yet another points discussion until I read John Poff's remark: "It never fails. Whenever things get dull around here, just start talking about the points.". My, my, I couldn't have said it better! :-))

Regards!

...JRF... who once again is reminded of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle...

[Devender Khatana]

Hi,

A POLL for dropping the BSF part. This also will not effect much as most of the users from BSF do not actively take part in the posts going on in this part.

Still the best part will be to have seperate statics for them and be posted in their forum.

Best Regards,
Devender

[Andrew Merritt_2]

First off, I do appreciate the stats that are produced, and the time you take over them.

I say either drop the BSF points from the totals (or do them separately), or don't confuse things by adding the two sets of points together and then applying the ITRC level names.

This latter point is where the real confusion lies (and I've posted on this in the past). It's just plain wrong to show someone as being a 'wizard' because their ITRC + BSF total has reached 1000.

Andrew

[Jay Bollyn]

I agree with Clay et al.

I don't think anyone should be misled by ITRC and BSF points being combined as they are currently. As noted above, simply clicking on the person's profile page tells the true tale. The only icon that matters to me is the icon that appears next to my name within a thread.

As I have written many times, I greatly appreciate Merijn's (and lately Alex's) work with the stats. IMHO, the stats are one of the components of the HP Forum Experience which set HP apart from the others, regarding peer-to-peer support.

So if Merijn would enjoy the challenge of dropping BSF points, great. But I don't think of this as a big deal, one way or the other.

- Jay