Regarding Daylight Saving

[Bill Hassell]

1. Correct.

2. As James said, 10.20 is not supported in any way (except for very expensive, custom support contracts). 10.20 has been obsolete and out of support since Dec 2001 -- that's 6 years out of support. Getting software and fixes will require a lot of time. For instance, Perl 5.xx is going to be difficult to find -- HP does not supply a new version of Perl for 10.20 and the HP-UX Porting Centre does not supply 10.20 packages anymore. And as mentioned, 11.00 is going out of support in a couple of months.

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi (again):

You wrote:

> I need to provide a proof that HP is not supporting daylight saving patch for HP-UX 10.2 and it's safe to update the tztab file so that i can convince production support people to update tztab file in production machine.

You have the "proof" in the link that I provided that shows 10.20 is out-of-support.

As for the safety of copying the file, direct your management to the manpages for 'tztab(4)', 'ctime(3C)' and 'environ(5)' to help them understand how HP-UX uses a common "rules" file.

Better yet, *demonstrate* to them on a test system of your choice in your shop that the copy works!!! Clay's script is intended to offer the assurance, too.

Regards!

...JRF...

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi (yet again):

Oh, and if you need a 10.20 version of Perl to run, fetch it from Merijn's site:

http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/downloads.html

Regards!

...JRF...

[vind123]

1. We have a lot of software installed for our application such as Informix db... Will there be a impact on other softwares because of changing this tztab file. I need to convey this one to Production Support team. How do i analyse it?


2. From the earlier Post comments i was able to understand that rebooting the system is good after changing this tztab file. Is it really needed?. How do i find whether a restart of the system is needed after changing this tztab file. I need to inform Production support that whether a restart is needed? They have lot of servers.


3.

a. I have two systems with me one is HP-UX 10.2 and HP-UX 11.0 . In the website that you had given
For HP-UX 11.0 they had given two options 32 bit or 64 bit for perl downloads. How do i find whether my OS is 32 bit or 64 bit.


b. For HP-UX 10.2 a lot of perl download options are given below. Which one do i select from the below options for download in the http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/downloads.html#hpux1020 website
â perl 5.8.7 + defined-or + DBI 1.48 + Tk 804.027 built with gcc-4.0.0
â perl 5.8.6 + defined-or + DBI 1.46 + Tk 804.027 built with gcc-3.4.3
â perl 5.8.5 + defined-or + DBI 1.43 + Tk 804.027 built with gcc-3.4.1
â perl 5.8.4 + defined-or + DBI 1.42 + Tk 804.027 built with gcc-3.4.0
â perl 5.8.3 + defined-or + DBI 1.40 + Tk 804.025b14 built with gcc-3.3.2
â perl 5.8.2 + defined-or + DBI 1.38 + Tk 804.025b5 built with gcc-3.3.2
â perl 5.8.1 + defined-or + DBI 1.38 + Tk 800.024 built with gcc-3.3.1
â perl 5.8.1 + DBI 1.38 + Tk 800.024 built with gcc-3.3.1
â perl 5.8.0 + DBI 1.30 + Tk 800.024 built with gcc-3.2


b. Also i am able to see lot of perl downloads under HP-UX 11.0 32/64, HP-UX 11.0 32, HP-UX 11.0 64
and i am not aware of what is DBI,TK and also two columns are provided in the website
"built with HP C-ANSI-C" and "built with GNU gcc".

c. Pls post me what perl version i need to download for HP-UX 11.0 also

[vind123]

4.
From your earlier comments, I had download the PHCO_34673 from the website
http://www2.itrc.hp.com/service/patch/search.do

There are three categories recommended for the patch PHCO_34673

1.specified
2.Recommended
3.Most recent

I dont know which one i downloaded earlier. Which one of them i need to select to
download so that i can overwrite in production machine?

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi:

OK, to answer your most recent questions:

1. The 'tztab' is part of the core operating system and *is* the *standard* mechanism by which the various C libraries determine your *local* time.

2. Again, you can upgrade your 'tztab' file immediately, but defer your reboot until just before the Spring 2007 transition occurs. The reboot simply insures that all processes are restarted and therefore have an opportunity to see the new rules. There is *not* a problem with delaying a reboot until near the transition point if this is easier.

3. For 10.20, the kernel is only a 32-bit one. I'd use the most recent Perl port that Merijn offers.

As for determining what your kernel bitness:

# getconf KERNEL_BITS

...shows the kernel "bitness" you are running.

# getconf HW_CPU_SUPP_BITS

...returns the "bitness" you *can* run.

If you have ANSI-C installed on your system, I'd choose a port built with it when one is available. If you don't have ANSI-C, choose a 'gcc' built port.

DBI = Databqase Independent Interface.

TK = Tool Kit for Perl widgets and GUI interfaces.

4. When obtaining patches, the choice should be the "recommended" one unless the "most recent" is the same as the "recommended" or the most recent provides a feature/fix that you must have. An examination of the patch notes will let you make his choice. "Recommended" patches have received the most testing and are likely to be the most stable for production environments.

That said, in the case of the patch we have been discussing, PHCO_34673 is the *only* current, recommended 'tzlib' patch!

See here for more informatino of patch evaluation:

http://www1.itrc.hp.com/service/patch/wrap.do?pageKey=patch.html.patchDBCandidateListHelp&BC=main|search|

Regards!

...JRF...

[Bill Hassell]

You asked:

1. We have a lot of software installed for our application such as Informix db... Will there be a impact on other softwares because of changing this tztab file. I need to convey this one to Production Support team. How do i analyse it?

There is nothing to analyze. Informix and all other applications on your systems are all using standard Unix library calls. I would suggest you send out this entire thread to anyone on your team that has a question so they can better understand how timezones are handled in HP-UX. All your applications have been using tztab every day as program calls to asctime(), ctime(), localtime(), etc are made. The only risk would be if someone decided to hand-type the changes into the tztab and made a typing error. Just replace the tztab file with the new version. And once you have Perl installed, the dst.pl program will verify your changes, long before you need the updated daylight saving change.

[vind123]

James/Bill,

Thanks a lot for the info. Right now i am out of station. Will post my comments on thursday. Also i got the page not displayed when i clicked the below link you gave

http://www1.itrc.hp.com/service/patch/wrap.do?pageKey=patch.html.patchDBCandidateListHelp&BC=main|search|

[vind123]

1. I installed the perl software from the below site for my HP-UX 11.0 System

http://h20293.www2.hp.com/portal/swdepot/displayProductInfo.do?productNumber=PERL


After executing swinstall statement, I noticed the depot file didn't get fully ftp'd because lack of disk space in my machine
In /var/adm/sw/swagent.log i am able to see errors . The /opt/perl2 directory is created. If i want to reinstall again
do i need do a swremove or can i issue swinstall again?

2. For restarting the machine after tztab file is installed you had given the below comments
"Again, you can upgrade your 'tztab' file immediately, but defer your reboot until just before the Spring 2007 transition occurs. The reboot simply insures that all processes are restarted and therefore have an opportunity to see the new rules. There is *not* a problem with delaying a reboot until near the transition point if this is easier."


My thinking is that a process uses C functions uses localtime,ctime... library functions. So after installation of tztab file if i am not doing a reboot , this localtime function in the process is going to run, take the system time ,TZ variable and look in the new tztab file and calculate the time and give it to the program. So the process is going to take the correct time by looking at the new tztab file even the system is not rebooted Can you explain me more on this. I am unable to get it.

3. I had installed the daylight patch in my HP-UX 11.0 System by the below way and it got successfully installed

swinstall -x autoreboot=true -x patch_match_target=true \
-s /tmp/PHCO_34673.depot


I was wondering why the reboot did not happen when it is set to true. From your earlier comments i am able to understand
"The reboot simply insures that all processes are restarted and therefore have an opportunity to see the new rules.
While the standard 'swinstall' command uses '-x autoreboot=true', installation of these patches does *not* cause an automatic reboot. The 'swinstall' switch simply tells 'swinstall' to force a reboot *IF* one or more patches in an installation session require it. Patches labeled "PHCO" (for 'CO'mmand-related patches) do not"

What does "installation session require it" means?

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi (again):

With reference to your questions of October 26:

1. It won't hurt to perform a 'swremove' of Perl and then reinstall it. This would be my preference given the initial installation failure.

2. You are correct, once the 'tztab' file is updated, *new* process instantiations fetch the new rules. The suggestion to reboot is to insure that *all* long-running processes are restarted and therefore have an "opportunity" to begin with the new rules.

At the very least, you should stop and restart the 'cron' daemon.

3. The '-x autoreboot=true' option signals 'swinstall' to reboot if *any* patch in the depot being installed requires a reboot. If not set on the commandline, and you were attempting to install software (e.g. patches to the kernel) that required a reboot, installation would be denied. If the option is set but no patches require a reboot, none occurs. The option applies to each 'swinstall' session.

Regards!

...JRF...

[Bill Hassell]

1. As mentioned, it is always a good idea to swremove a failed installation. I always verify my downloads by using tar to list the contents. That way, if it is incomplete, there will be a tar error message at the end.

2. You wrote: So the process is going to take the correct time by looking at the new tztab file even the system is not rebooted Can you explain me more on this. I am unable to get it.

Your C programs will work just fine. But your programs aren't like daemons such as cron. cron never stops and it has the information it's schedules stored in memory. It's the programs and daemons that never stop which are of concern. A reboot takes care of those -- and none of them need to be restarted until the date is close to the new changes. The new tztab has no effect on the current date because the rules are exactly the same. Starting in 2007, the rule changes so until then, the new file has no effect.

3. The new tztab file does not require a reboot because a new kernel does not need to be rebuilt and the lab determined that no other process would be immediately affected by the new tztab. One could argue that since cron would be indirectly affected, perhaps a reboot should be required. But technically, you can just restart cron and accomplish the same thing. Because there are so many processes in a typical HP-UX system, it is impossible to know which ones might need to be restarted.

[vind123]

1. I did the below steps for the installation that was mentioned in the readme files

Login as root.

After you have downloaded the Perl depot file, move it to the /tmp directory.

Verify that the file has down-loaded correctly using swlist.

Note: swlist and swinstall require you to specify the full path name to the source depot.

swlist -d @ /tmp/

On a stand-alone system, run swinstall to install the product:

swinstall -s /tmp/ perl


After these steps i am able to see a directory /opt/perl_32 is being created and also errors in swagent.log

I tried the below one to remove it but it's not working . I am not sure the below command is correct one

swremove -p perl
swremove perl
Also i checked swagentd.log and it saying "Terminating prematurely-Cannot serve RPC requests with any binding RPC Server intialisation failed"


2. Also james gave me some command to find the number of bits earlier. I tried the below ones and i am getting 64 bits for both the commands in HP-UX 11.0. If i say HP-UX 10.2 is 32 bit one, does it means kernel bitness or bitness that we can run? I ran these commands in HP-UX 11.0 and it gave 64. I download perl from HP website which it was mentioned for 32 and 64 bit. In the /opt directory i am able to see perl_32 directory. should it be perl_64 directory?

As for determining what your kernel bitness:

# getconf KERNEL_BITS

...shows the kernel "bitness" you are running.

# getconf HW_CPU_SUPP_BITS

...returns the "bitness" you *can* run.

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi:

As for removing Perl an reinstalling:

# swremove perl

...will uninstall Perl. If you add the '-p' option, you are *previewing* what you would removed, but not actually removing it.

I would suggest restarting the 'swagentd' daemon since you mention RPC errors:

# swagentd -r

As for 32-bit versus 64-bit, HP-UX 10.20 is *only* a 32-bit operating system. At 11.0 you have the option of running either a 32-bit kernel or a 64-bit one if your underlying hardware supports a 64-bit architecture. Newer hardware only support a 64-bit kernel.

That said, however, 32-bit programs will run just fine on 64-bit kernels. You lose only the abiility to address larger amounts of memory and you can rapidly run into limits of shared memory with databases. For simple Perl applications a 32-bit version would be quite acceptable. If you are using Perl with a 64-bit database then you must use a 64-bit Perl. This isn't a problem, since both 32-bit and 64-bit Perls are installed using the HP depot.

Regards!

...JRF...

[vind123]

I did the swagentd -r and after that swremove perl. Now the swremove is running and i am not able to notice that RPC error in the logs. But I got some errors after swremove and pasted some details from swagent.log. Also i did a swlist | grep -i perl after swremove, i am able to see perl is not found. Hope it is ok now? But the /opt/perl_32 directory is still present. Can i delete this directory and do a swinstall again?


* Begining the Remove Execution Phase
* Remove fileset "Perl 15-32.PERL-RUN,1=/opt/perl,r=D.5.8.7.A"
(1 of 2)
* Remove fileset "Perl 15-32.PERL-MAN,1=/opt/perl,r=D.5.8.7.A"
(2 of 2)
/opt/perl_32/html//lib/* not found
rm: /usr/bin/perl non-existent
rm: /opt/perl non-existent

Warning: Unable to remove the link file /usr/bin/perl and /opt/perl
Error: The "postremove" script for "Perl5-32" failed (exit code "1").
The script location was
"/var/adm/sw/products/Perl15-32/pfiles/postremove"
*This script had errors but the execution of the porduction from the script for further details

Error: The execution phase had errors. See the above output for details

[vind123]

In swinstall command i am able to see -d option to mention the depot name. When i do a swlist from which directory it takes and list me the output. To which directory the depot is mapped in HP-UX systems. How do i find it?

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi:

I believe that the errors reported by 'swremove' represent the incompletely installed state of your last installation. The bundle you are installing will be deposited in '/opt/perl' with a symbolic link from '/usr/bin/perl'.

I would proceed with the 'swinstall'.

Regards!

...JRF...

[vind123]

Hi James,

Perl got successfuly installed. Thanks a lot. I am able to see two directories /opt/perl_32 and /opt/perl_64
now. I tried to run the below one now
./dst.pl -y 2006 and it gave no output
./dst.p -y 2007 and it gave no output.
Should it give no oputput for the above commands?
and i tried TZ=CST6CDT ./dst.pl -y 2006 and i am able to see the output.

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi (again):

If you look at Clay's script he notes:

"A non-zero result is returned if no TZ is known or no time transition occurs."

This is the case for your tests where you do not define a TZ variable. Consider:

# TZ=UTC ./dst.pl -y 2007

...returns nothing, and the exist status is '2' when you test with:

# echo $?

# TZ=EST5EDT ./dst.pl -y 2007
Sun Mar 11 01:59:59 EST 2007 --> Sun Mar 11 03:00:00 EDT 2007
Sun Nov 04 01:59:59 EDT 2007 --> Sun Nov 04 01:00:00 EST 2007

Regards!

...JRF...

[Bill Hassell]

As James mentioned, dst.pl uses the current TZ value. If the command:

echo $TZ

produces a TZ string with no daylight saving option, then there will be no output. Since your original question was about TZ=CST0, then dst.pl will produce exactly what you see -- no output. Since last weekend was the switch to standard time, I assume that you had to 'fix' all your HP-UX machines with the useless CST0 TZ value. The same will be true next year unless you use the correct TZ value.

[vind123]

Thanks a lot for the info. I want to verify whether i have any other issues. Will post my comments on thursday.

[vind123]

James/Bill,

Thx a lot for supporting me for a long time.
Will post my comments as a seperate thread if i face any problem in future. Thx a lot.

[vind123]

bye