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02-25-2004 06:33 AM
02-25-2004 06:33 AM
SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
-----------------------------
Your Feedback
=============
In the past, we have asked you about many different topics and heard many different responses, all which are being put to good use. These include topics like:
- What are your thoughts of SAM (some good and some bad :)
- What areas of SAM do you use
- How could SAM be enhanced
- UI technologies
- General system management: how do you do things & what you would like
In doing this, we have heard various feedback including:
- Performance (needs to be faster)
- Doesn't scale
- X is too heavy on the network
- Doesn't expose commands so we don't know what "OK" will do
- Want it as a learning tool
- Needs to support more command line options
- Command line does not have some of the features SAM does
- Useful for tasks that involve multiple steps
- GUI's should do something graphical
New Tools
=========
With a lot of this feedback, we have started down a path of enhancing SAM as can be seen in 11i v1.6 (11.22) and 11i v2 (11.23). This has not only involved the GUI/TUI but very much so the CLI (so when you reply to the SAM team, it's more than just the GUI - it's system management :). It initially began with the 11.22 release and the introduction of kcweb to replace SAM's Kernel Configuration area.
The kcweb initiative took the approach of offering a new web interface, but also significantly enhancing the command line interface (CLI) to ensure everything in the GUI is available at the command line. With this in mind, there was no TUI delivered believing a new, significantly enhanced CLI would meet this need (since then, we have understood the error in our ways :)
The results of kcweb provided:
- Tunable value checking is done in commands (kmtune/kctune)
- Reduced startup time to ~10 seconds (SAM cache took about 1 minute to build)
- No need to patch SAM to get new tunable and driver information
- New html web interface w/localized messages and help
- Command line preview
- Kernel tunable man pages (outside of SAM)
- Static/dynamic kernel tuning
- DLKM support
- Kernel tunable usage charts
- Set thresholds and alarms for kernel tunables
In 11i v2 (11.23), pdweb was delivered to replace SAM Peripheral Devices and Cards areas using the same ideas/features. This tool allows you to view the I/O tree and perform PCI card online addition and replacement. Here, new things were introduced that really addressed much of your feedback (performance being one of them) and we will highlight some things below.
Note that pre-11.23, SAM was the recommended way to perform PCI OL* operations (over the rad(1m) command) because it does extra error checking with critical resource analysis (CRA) and ensures proper execution of steps. In 11.23, the SAM functionality was pushed down into a new and improved CLI called olrad(1m). This new command simplifies the number of steps and performs critical resource analysis (everything SAM does).
The pdweb tool offers command line preview and full support of command line options. Most importantly, it is fully scalable and has significant performance improvements over SAM. Here are some examples:
- SAM startup time on an 11.23 rx2600 is ~20 seconds
- In SAM, building the list of devices could take over an hour
- Pdweb startup time on an 11.23 rx2600 is ~4 seconds (including starting Mozilla and Apache)
- Pdweb auto startup time from remote PC running IE is 2 seconds
- Eliminating frames sped up page generation as compared with kcweb
- Time to run critical resource analysis on 11i V1 (11.11) SAM ranged from 10 to 1200 seconds
- Time to run critical resource analysis on 11.23 from the CLI (or pdweb) ranges from 0.2 to 5 seconds (majority of the time it is sub-second)
We have also worked with the ioscan team to improve its performance. Say you have a system with 10,000 devices. The pdweb tool will probably take about 5 seconds to show the I/O tree listing when you first enter the tool and after that, 1 second between screens. Below are some timing runs that show the performance improvement of ioscan -k (for 10,000 devices in I/O tree):
old ioscan -F 60+ minutes (what SAM used)
old ioscan -k 3 minutes (what people asked us to use)
old ioscan -kF 27 minutes (what we would have had to use)
new ioscan -kF 5 seconds (what pdweb uses)
Besides improving the performance, a new option (-t) shows when the last full scan was run so you know if you are looking at old data and we know when to refresh our cache.
User Interfaces
===============
Concerning UI technologies:
A command line interface is critical. We will never remove this.
A terminal based UI is also very important. This should be simple and lightweight so it works when a GUI cannot.
We have moved from an X/motif interface to an html web-based interface. This is light on the network and can be used from any desktop with either a web browser or an X server. The Web UI and the TUI are no longer trying to be identical, as we want to use graphs, colors and fonts that can help with visualization and are not available in a terminal.
We have been cautioned to do the web interface right:
- we do not use port 80 or interfere with other web activities (have a special management port)
- we allow Apache to start and stop on demand and have a timeout feature
- we scale back Apache to have similar memory requirements as SAM.
- our web pages are small so our apps are usable over 56k connections
- we do not use Java (minimize startup time, system resources, and dependencies)
- everything is encrypted with SSL
- we support both Mozilla and IE
- we test with other browsers as well
Whew! There are some highlights of what has been delivered based on lots of customer feedback. We hope you found this useful and please provide any feedback you see fit.
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02-28-2004 03:20 AM
02-28-2004 03:20 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Thanks for providing such a detailed insight on the Web-based kcweb and pdweb tool. Nice work.
I am also impressed to know that we do not have to depend on patches. :)
For future release of SAM, will we be having a GUI, CLI and TUI?
What will be the release mechanism if there will be no patches available?
What version of Apache will SAM support? Is Apache bundled with the product?
Overall, kudos to you guys for developing such excellent Web-based tools. Keep up the good work.
Looking forward to the new version of SAM...
Best regards,
Hemanth
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02-28-2004 06:38 AM
02-28-2004 06:38 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Bill Hassell, sysadmin
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03-02-2004 10:02 AM
03-02-2004 10:02 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
>What will be the release mechanism if there will be no patches available?
To clarify, SAM used to have tunable and driver information staticly stored in the code, but with kcweb, this was changed to fully adapt as the list of tunables and drivers change (support of new ones). This is to minimize the need to patch.
Bill,
>Will there be some transition documents to help us navigate the new CLI/TUI interfaces?
New interfaces have man pages and help available.
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03-02-2004 05:03 PM
03-02-2004 05:03 PM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Congrats and best of luck in your endeavor.It's all about making our sysadmins life easier.thanx to ur effort,
getting into serious part,...when i was trained in one of unix education centre,I chanced upon the topic about the informations that would help a hp customer engineer in recovering HP UX server in case of disaster.This information was a compliment to make_recovery tape during restoration.The information required were of the following commands ,Print_manifest,vgdisplay -v ,lvdisplay -v,pvdisplay -v,lvlnboot -v,/etc/fstab.bdf.swapinfo,ioscan -fun ioscan -kf. In view of making the sys admins job easy I have written a general purpose shell script which exactly gets the following information.Also in view of getting this shell script to all the system admins around the world, I hadndover this shell script as an attachment to u guy's.If you really feel this can help the system admins, you can embed the script in the Sam utility using ADD CUSTOM APPLICATION after testing.
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03-02-2004 05:34 PM
03-02-2004 05:34 PM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
A good work!!!
As you responded to Bill, Man pages should be clearly explained with examples( as some man pages are present for sake)
even though i haven't explored 11i v2( we have plans for v3 as it supported on IA and RISC architecture) i would like to suggest you that to make all kernel values to be dynamic (they must change themselves as per application).
anyway it's a good work.
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03-03-2004 02:22 AM
03-03-2004 02:22 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Thanks for the script.
Ravi,
>As you responded to Bill, Man pages should be clearly explained with examples( as some man pages are present for sake)
You nailed it on the head!
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03-10-2004 11:08 AM
03-10-2004 11:08 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
For example, a TUI kit might offer means to build things like scrolled lists, buttons, controls etc. with the same look, feel and disciplines as the ObAM implementation.
Moreover, the SAM command line could be enhanced to allow direct (i.e. non-interactive) execution of an action, ala
sam action [arg ...]
where the arg list supplied as many arguments as needed to completely specify the action to be done.
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03-10-2004 11:47 AM
03-10-2004 11:47 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
That is appreciated.
Hopefully if the new release is compatbile with trusted systems, I can help you test.
SEP
Owner of ISN Corporation
http://isnamerica.com
http://hpuxconsulting.com
Sponsor: http://hpux.ws
Twitter: http://twitter.com/hpuxlinux
Founder http://newdatacloud.com
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03-10-2004 07:30 PM
03-10-2004 07:30 PM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
I am not aware of such a facility in SAM - if it is there it is well hidden! I would like to see it implemented in a future release.
Mark Syder (like the drink but spelt different)
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03-10-2004 10:02 PM
03-10-2004 10:02 PM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Congrats ...
Sam on a web based interface will be inetersting to see...
More feedback can provide only after using it
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03-10-2004 11:46 PM
03-10-2004 11:46 PM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
But I agree that a PREVIEW ACTION button would be really useful.
Bill Hassell, sysadmin
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03-10-2004 11:57 PM
03-10-2004 11:57 PM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Mark
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03-11-2004 01:01 AM
03-11-2004 01:01 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Thanks guys!
mark
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03-11-2004 02:47 AM
03-11-2004 02:47 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
I guess I wasn't around when the request for improvements came out, so I wanted to throw a quick one your way that I came across yesterday. If it's too late, I understand:)
This enhancement request is in regards to restricted sam. I was attempting to give a user the ability to unlock accounts through the restricted sam interface (ie: "sam -r"), but found that when giving them access to that, I also gave them access to adding a new user/removing a user/etc.
Just wondering if that can be taken into consideration in the next enhancement cycle: To allow for non-superusers (by giving them access through sam -r) to unlock accounts if they get locked, without giving them access to the whole section of adding/removing users. Small request, but thought it's worth mentioning.
Thanks again for all your efforts!
-Hazem
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03-11-2004 10:30 AM
03-11-2004 10:30 AM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Thanks for your input.
Mark,
The new tools that have been developed do offer the ability to preview the command that will be executed. They, too, still write the commands that have been executed to the sam log as Bill indicated.
Hazem,
We are always happy to receive feedback.
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03-11-2004 09:59 PM
03-11-2004 09:59 PM
Re: SAM Insights From Collecting Feedback From You
Mark