SAM wants EVERYONEb,"s input!

[Bill Douglass]

1. Running apache on each server would be OK, provided thatHP provided timely patches to the Apache code, and used https for communications. Also, I would GREATLY prefer not using an interface that required a specific browser version. I dislike web apps that only work with IE or Netscape 4.x.

2. I would prefer the web and command-line combination over a TUI. I like to be able to automate admin functions when possible, so having reliable command-line equivalents for the web interface is important. A curses-based interface is not. Remote admin via web or commnad-line interface is also fine with me (provided I'm not downloading somehugh java class file over a dial-up link).

3. Standard sar-type stuff - file tables, mem usage, disk I/O rates, buffer cache hits.

4. My biggest gripe is the slow disk subsystem speed. It sounds like you're working on that, which is great.

Thanks for taking an interest in our needs.

[Christian Gebhardt]

1. Apache is ok,

2. It's very important to have a command line, but additionally with a good graphic Interface you can have a quick overview. I think Web-based is the future.

3. all montoring glance can do (without licensing)

4. "Histories" are very nice (Disk allocation during a certain period in a diagram)

Chris

[Mel Burslan]

1. Apache (maybe a stripped down version of it, unmodifiable as far as the addons go) on every system is a good idea for web based administration, as long as it is not "always on", i.e., running ondemand only.

2. TUI is something I use day in and day out, so elimination of TUI would be a bad thing for me.

3. All kernel parms and table spaces, memory/swap utilization and disk bottleneck monitoring would be a good add-on

4.
* "Show SAM Log" activity should be available on a text window (scrolling as it executes) on the GUI/Web interface.
* Also a button like "Run command" to quickly run a unix command without leaving the GUI or spawning a new terminal window, would be really nice for things like doing a quick bdf or a vgdisplay, etc.

[Brian M Rawlings]

From the top...

1. If you add web-based functionality to SAM, this is a net good thing, but DO NOT remove the older functionality. As so many have said, Apache/Java is bad mojo for too many of us. Where it is an option, it may well be used (if easier than X or TUI), but on many machines it will tax resources too much to be workable.

AS LONG AS YOU LEAVE THE EXISTING STUFF ALONE, you can add Web/Java options. Some people will probably even use them.

2. The TUI interface is critical, do not even think about removing it. You might as well ask if you can remove 'vi', since it is so old, antiquated, and, well, just plain ugly...

Dude. 'vi' is there at all run levels (with a few tricks), and in all versions of unix I have ever seen. It's the only thing you can count on.

Likewise with the TUI of SAM. Well, most run levels, at any rate. It is needed for telnet access, which will never die, since it is the only good performer over limited bandwidth links, which will (sigh) never die either.

KEEP THE TUI.

3. As many have said, monitoring should be at least as good as GPM-level views. And, the more the merrier... I agree.

4. It's about time for a full-featured LVM/Disk GUI tool, SAM is too limited as matters stand. New admins and users will bless your name if you make the GUI do all the things you can do in the command line, but with effective "stupidity limiting" and improved error messages. You might put me out of a job, but... hmmmm, maybe I'd better hit that button (oh no -- I hit the button by mistake!)

--bmr

[Donny Jekels]

a cool feature that would be neat, would be a command line section at the bottom. that would popup a xterm on the side with the output?

my 2 cents.

[Rita C Workman]

1. I don't think it would be an issue with some folks here, but I really see the need for myself...and I hate to run anything I don't 'need'. See #2.

2. I use terminal interface. I prefer command line for most things. So why would I run a gui to give me back command line...Maybe I'm not being progressive but I know what I like....Leave me my tui please.

3. I use glance alot, so whatever you want to this utility might be nice.

4. Possibilities may be endles...but I'll have to give it a little thought..Like I said before I like my terminal interface...so gui...hmmm...

Rgrds,
Rita

[Sudhakar_5]

Hi,

Thats gr8 to hear that you are looking for the feedback for improving the things in future.

1.As most of the HP-UX servers will be running in backend, it would be good idea to have if u can integrate administration tasks and day to day tasks to Apache webserver.If u dont need to run apache,then ofcourse you can stop Apaceh server as well.

2.I like to work with TUI rather than GUI.I cant trust my OS of my PC,it hangs very often, so i cant take a risk of running any crucial tasks on GUI over wan links.I feel TUI shld not be replaced by GUI,Both shld be coexist.

3.I would like to have some more monitoring tools for open ports,open files(rather than depeding upon third party tools, i wud like to have HP tool),CPU utilisation per CPU..

4.As i said earler itself, i like to work TUI rather than GUI, i feel it takes more time when u have xp/emc box connected to it.Cant we disable ioscan, with looking for all the H/W to run at startup?

ATB...
sudhakar

[Omer Mukthar]

Hi SAM team,

I strongly support SAM to work like client/server type. I like the SUN Adminsuite which can be installed on a WinNT server and connect to SUN servers (connection encrypted). What about RBAC? Is HP having any Idea of moving to RBAC? What about having a small hardened https server running on HP server to provide this service to web based clients? or you could make it as an option which can be enabled or disabled to have SAM support with Apache. Who ever likes it let them enable it if not for security reasons let them disable it. Financial institutions like ours we have seperate rolls, 1. System Admin, Security Admin and Auditors. They all should have their login ID's with different privileges to the server and should get different logs and control realted to their jobs. I think this will commonly suit all other corporates as well. I belive that SAM should run from a client(mostly Windows) to do all administration and receive security logs, system error logs and pop up critical error messages when it happens. This will ease to administer too many servers from a central location.
Great to know that there is improvement going to happen to Uncle SAM.

[Khalid A. Al-Tayaran]

Hi,
We are mainly an SAP/Oracle env.
Answers:

1- Yes, I will accept a web server on my production machines if administration will be easy and efficient. We are currently using web management tools that come with the DLT and LTO (Ulrium) drive libraries. So if SAM was web based it would be great.

2- TUI is very important. I think NOBODY can learn UNIX/Linux by using a GUI. I learned by typing in my commands at the terminal so did my senior colleagues.. But I also suggest faster and more intuitive X-Windows system. Don't give M$ a chance in this field.

3- Memory, CPU usage, disk space, network activity
User activity..
.
4- I would like to see graphical descriptions of LVM. For example: how much space is exactly used in a given volume group, number of disks in a volume, non-used disks,... Also we like support for multiple file systems like Redhat Linux 8 (ext3,rieserfs,...). One important issue to us is extending file systems online without shutdown.

[Andy Liu]

1.Please keep TUI environment,and Web-base as optional.
2.I like the feature including swapinfo,top command information,syslog.log and EMS critical & series message.

[V. V. Ravi Kumar_1]

1. If it runs only when it is needed then there is no problem.
2. A GUI is a better alternative for TUI.
3. There must be an option to write all performace related data to a file using SAM, and later i should be able to see the same by giving that file as input.
4. like diskconfig tool in tru64, where i can drag a pointer to select the FS size. also by clicking on particular FS i can see the details.

Further there must be an option to change defualt router from SAM in network interfaces section.

Also we should be able to see what command it is running like in SMIT.

Regards
Ravi

[Tim Sanko]

In addition to allowing you to edit and view commands, here is the other suggestion.

allow a command check via button/option for command validation. Running the command through lex to check for command grammatical correctness should be faster than what appears to be the current checking done...

[Tim Sanko]

Web based gui is fine, as long as there is a full featured one that we can still use from a serial terminal...

Our Web console, GSP died and 1 processor died. We used a serial tube to safely shut down a database, and set up for service.

Tim

[John Meissner]

The appache web server on every server? A web based terminal?

I personally telnet or ssh into boxes using my Red Hat Linux box. I then run my admin tools. I use ServiceControl manager in our environment and value the tool but Think that SAM would better be used as is - either command line or export the display for the GUI. This is good, fast, and reliable.

As for LVM - I'd love to see a drag drop GUI like SUSE linux uses for LVM or like Partition Magic uses. I think this would save HOURS of tedious work.
grab these three disks... drop into this volume group.... and these logival volumes....

that would be super!

[Michael Tully]

Hi SAM team,

This was a problem that I thought would be worthwhile investing some time in fixing. That is to not allow the changing of the root account shell from within SAM. As many people realise it *will* cause a major headache.
This posting was a classic example of the user not having any idea of the repercussions. Let's save some poor unsuspecting users from this dilemma.

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0xc9498b82cc91d711abdc0090277a778c,00.html

Regards
Michael
"When I have trouble spelling, it's called fat finger syndrome."

[twang]

i would like to suggest keep existing TUI tools. Yes, now web-based sysadmin tools are very convenient and widely accepted. But TUI is the basic and more reliable way to do sysadmin tasks.
So i think web-based sysadmin tool could be an optional sysadmin tool. And it could be used to provide monitoring info(like nickel.sh's output). But please take away TUI.

[Suhas_2]

Hi,
1> I would definitely like to see Apache running on the system.
2> TUI is very important. A GUI session would consume lot of resources and the responce time would increase like anything.
3>Glance, Measureware are sufficient. And third party softwares like Patrol, Best1 6.5 are proving quiet useful in a multiplatform environment.
4> Would like to go directly to different parts of system management. So that I can delegate these functionalities easily. Restricted SAM is good, but not very impressive.

Cheer's
Suhas

[Lior Mishkovsky]

SAM team,

1. Apache is accepted, but run it like a miniserver (webmin like) and don't hold the `main` apache place - that might be needed for other applications ...
2. The TUI is a very important interface for complicated environments like were running - we work at a separated Lab networks using console servers.In that kind of env. you got to have TUI - you can't EXPORT the display or something like that...
3. I want to see a traffic monitor - so i can see capacity/throughput on each NIC - this is very important in my env. + the usuall disk/cpu/paging etc...
4. I'dd like to see a `walk through` to assist young admin in building a new LVM'ed disk.
Other than that - As far as I can remember your support for fibre storage is lacking: When you want to add these kind of devices you must do a pre-work with PV - writing command line, than moving to the SAM. That realy bugges you while defining manually 12TB in a project...

Best Regards.
Lior./

[Massimo Bianchi]

Hi,
here is my contrib.

1- Apache. I know it's one of the most secure web server on the market, but many customer won't allow it for secutiry purposes. Some are very concerned about security, and a web browser won't be acceptable. From some systems i had to remove event the netscape.

2- TUI is very important to me. I often install server, and when problme arise with lan cards you have got only the console and rs-232 connections. For example, if i can choose, i always use the TUI interface of SAM. a weg-bui won't be acceptable for many reason:
- fear of stability
- speed
- full support of every command, just like other version. sorry but i never saw two kind of interfaces supporting exactly the same sets of commands...

3- it wuold be great to have some tools like glance incorporated in sam, may be with less functionality, and IDS turned on by default

4- a better LVM support would be much interesting, usually from SAM you are not entitled all the freedoom as the command-line

and more:

- in the section for kernel parameters, it would be great if will be indicated min, default and max value, and thi parameter would be updated as soon as patch are installed, without having to change strange files...

- fix sam to work properly even not in a 24*80 TUI, using the full screen

Regards,
Massimo

[Manish Bharadwaj]

1. If we donot use web server on system we donot want it to run. We only install application on our production system which are required. If you are working in Datacentre from console terminal you cannot run browser anyway.

2. TUI is very important to us. It does the thing we need to do fast as compaired to any GUI.

3. Choices will be good so that we can tune whatever needs to be monitor depending on different enviourments.

4.Mainly user command line for disk and filesystem setup.

[Bill Hassell]

#1. Most big data centers do not want unnecessary software on production systems. Adding Apache adds complexity (config and maintenance) and security issues. And unfortunately, most new tools use Java-based code with horrible performance and compatibility issues. If Java-based web tools are developed, the lab MUST be forced to test the code on a 100Mhz (or slower) CPU and use a 26kbaud modem (or slower). Not only would there be a requirement for a new support program (Apache) but the web code will likely fail to work in some web browsers (Netscape, Opera, etc)--which forces (unacceptable?) restrictions onto the data center support tools.

#2 The TUI is very important, especially for remote support. Xwindows is a terrible interface for modems due to the massive amount of data needed for a simple window. Try using SAM to a remote site from a hotel room on another continent (at 14-19kbaud) and paying $1/min waiting for 5 minutes of fancy icons to be displayed. A web based GUI will also be very data-intensive on the line too. The TUI is very badly underrated as to it's importance in remote management. Part of the problem is the lack of knowledge about HP terminal ease of use when compared to dumb terminals and dumb PC emulators.

#3 The current occupancy for certain tables would be very useful: nfile, nproc, ntpy, nstrpty, nstrtel, ncblock, ncallout, nflocks. Additionally, range values like DBC percentage and DBC megs currently in use would be very useful.

#4 In the GUI (did I say that?), incorporate Xvg to display the LVM as pictures. Be sure to add a useful printer layout interface. Not familiar with Xvg? see ftp://contrib:9unsupp8@hprc.external.hp.com/sysadmin/xvg/

[Abdul Majeed Lardhi]

Dear Sam Team,

1. No. There is no point in running a web server on all servers. If it is absolutely needed, let it be on a one system per subnet / network. we are secure organization, they preventing us from running a web server.

2. TUI is important. some time it is easy to perform certain mundane tasks using a GUI / TUI rather than running a set of commands. And i prefer TUI over GUI because i need X otherwise which eats to my performance / load.

3. i guess glance is there.

4. n/a

Regards

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

I've been playing with SuSE lately, and noticed something in YAST/YAST2 that I miss in swinstall/swremove (falls in the SAM category right?) for a long time: software state integration. It should be easy to have a software list, just as in swinstall/swremove where the state is next to it: installed/uninstalled/configured/whatever, so I don't have to hop between swremove and install all the time. Now it would be easy to have an icon next to it that'll show that the mounted application CD(set) has updated software available. Now if that works, you could extend that thought, and make free software available updates (the ones we don't have to pay for) iconified with something like "free update avalable on the web, go and get it".

Enjoy, have FUN! H.Merijn [ Who did not know there was so much to be improved in SAM :) ]

[Tim Sanko]

Web base is fine, as long as you have a serial interface that works fine. We have seen more than once when a switch goes out, or cards fail that it becomes time to drag out the old serial tube to work on the system.

[John Bolene]

1. Apache is getting more and more needed, but we only run it where needed due to security issues.

2. Love the TUI, helps with making scripts for special purposes. Doing the GUI should make a log file of the TUI commands used.

3. We use glance all the time.

4. Add in complete OnlineJFS to the default kernel. It is available by default on AIX, why is it an extra cost item with HPUX?