server recommendations

[Doug_3]

We are spec'ing out a server. We are either going to go with a reconditioned N class 8 way or the newer rp8400 or rp7400.

I would be interested in folks thoughts about the 3 options: extensibility, management, stability, performance, etc. We will use it for a combination database server and app's server.

Also, any thoughts about a good performance disk array? Don't think we can afford the xp's. I'd prefer h/w raid 10 or 01 with lot's of cache.

Thanks in advance and points for any thoughtful responses!

Doug

[Pete Randall · Accepted solution]

Doug,

I'd look at the RP7410. The problem with the N-class is upgradeability. You can only put up to PA8600(550 MHz) chips in it. With the 7410, it "should" be upgradeable right on through the PA line and even into the IA line with a board swap. Same is true for the RP8400, but if you're considering an N-class, the 8400 sounds like more machine than you need.

As far as arrays go, I'm still pondering that myself. I've currently got an FC60 array that I've been very happy with, but it's well on it's way to obsolesence already so I need to figure out what's next. I tend to lean away from the VA's because they're an AutoRAID box and I prefer to control where and how my data is stored (i.e. in RAID 0/1 space or RAID 5 space).


Pete

[John Dvorchak]

The N is our server of choice and we literally have dozens. I believe that it is typical HP and very rugged, reliable, and second to none in support. Very versatile and expandable. I especially like the attached GSP for out of band management via the LAN. If I am not mistaken the new nomenclature for the N is the RP 74xx so in effect a rose is a rose. We call them all N's while the HP support staff refers to them by their RP designation.

[Chris Vail]

Let me recommend that you NOT put your application and database on the same server. There are plenty of reasons for this, but here's a couple: 1) Performance tuning: with both on the same hardware, this becomes seriously confusing. Is it the application or the database that is swapping out? The best bet is to put them on separate systems. You'll be much happier buying two smaller systems (example: an N class or RP7410 for the database, and an L Class or RP5430 for the application server) than you would buying a single RP8400 and putting both database and application on it. You'll also save a bunch of money in the process.

The N class and L class machines are "end of life". There will be no more hardware improvements on these systems, and they've just about disappeared from HP's warehouses. However, you may be able purchase these cheaply.

That being said, any good HP dealer will competetively price RP7400 and RP5400 series systems against the used market. Our reseller will match or beat the price of used gear with new. If you need his contact info, respond back here.

We use EMC disks here. They used to be the high-priced alternative, but they're suffering financially these days, and have really dropped prices. Again: I can provide contact info if you want, but their prices are great and their product is EXCELLENT.

Chris

[Chris Vail]

Let me recommend that you NOT put your application and database on the same server. There are plenty of reasons for this, but here's a couple: 1) Performance tuning: with both on the same hardware, this becomes seriously confusing. Is it the application or the database that is swapping out? The best bet is to put them on separate systems. You'll be much happier buying two smaller systems (example: an N class or RP7410 for the database, and an L Class or RP5430 for the application server) than you would buying a single RP8400 and putting both database and application on it. You'll also save a bunch of money in the process.

The N class and L class machines are "end of life". There will be no more hardware improvements on these systems, and they've just about disappeared from HP's warehouses. However, you may be able purchase these cheaply.

That being said, any good HP dealer will competetively price RP7400 and RP5400 series systems against the used market. Our reseller will match or beat the price of used gear with new. If you need his contact info, respond back here.

We use EMC disks here. They used to be the high-priced alternative, but they're suffering financially these days, and have really dropped prices. Again: I can provide contact info if you want, but their prices are great and their product is EXCELLENT.

Chris

[Ron Cornwell]

For disk space we have (1)n VA7100 and (2) VA7400's. We have the all connected via 4 switches in a full fabric mesh. With the VA's we have them hard set to RAID 1+0. The new VA7110 will allow you to connect (2) additional disk cabinets (DS2405) to it for a total of 45 disk. The VA7410 will allow for connection of 6 disk cabinets (DS2405) for a total of 105 disk. Support has been very good on these and management is done with an application called CommandView.

[Steven E. Protter]

I would recommend the newer hardware if you can afford it.

The reason is that its more likely to be supported longer for new releases of HP-UX. Further, if you have a hardware service contract it costs substantially less than on older boxes that are no longer built.

The cost difference is enough to pay for the machine in many cases when measured over a five year span.

Xiotech has some good, low priced disk arrays, that undercut HP on price. Support is reasonable but not in the same league as HP. We are using such an array and it can be easily configured the way you want it.

SEP

[John Poff]

Hi Doug,

We running rp8400s here and we've been very happy with them. Very stable, performance is great, and with 11i you can do partitions if you want to, which would allow you to partition out your database and app servers. We also have a couple of N-class boxes that have been very good. It really comes down to what your budget looks like, but if you can afford it I'd suggest getting the rp8400 or rp7400.

As for the disk array, as others have mentioned the prices are great now. We've primarily been on the large arrays [EMC, IBM, HP] so I can't offer much help for suggesting a lower end array. We did do a test with an FC10 array for a month. It worked fine for our test but I didn't get to stress test it much.

JP

[Kelli Ward]

Hi Doug,
Don't get me wrong, I really do like the N-Classes, but if you want to purchase a system to keep around for a long time, go with the rp
Chris is right, N-class is fast approaching (already there?) end of life, so unless you are getting a screaming deal on an N-class, the rp's are a longer term solution.
Good luck,
Kel

[Tim Sanko]

I want to know three things,

1. how much money can you spend.

2. How important is failsafe

3. How expandable is necessary.

Obviously bounded by my own prejudice, All others being equal, I shoot for the 8400 with an EMC symmetrix array.

You can never have too much box unless it "Breaks the Bank". I would get an EMC Clarion if finances are tight.

I wouldn't scrape on avoiding fibre channel, as that is false economy. get an FC4700 at the least (We have EMC Symms/FC4700's and other storage solutions).

The real speed of the unix system is dependent on the disks, as well as the RAM and processors.

[Dave Wherry]

Along with some of the earliers thoughts on keeping your database and application servers seperate, I agree. If you have a 3 tier configuration and put 2 of them on the same server, it's makes it more difficult to identify performance problems. The good news is that with either the rp7410 or the rp8400 you can partition them. Keep your tiers seperate.
For the storage the va line is quite good. The problem being you said you want lots of cache. The va is a mid range product and I'm not sure of the cache limit but, it doesn't come close to the xp's.
If your budget keeps you in the mid range line the va7410 is nice. It only goes up to 2GB of cache. It will scale to over 15TB of storage.
The Hitachi Thunder 9570 is anotheroption. It is also has 2GB of cache and scales to 146GB.
If you do want the large cache you will have to go to the XP line.

[Michael Tully]

Hi Doug,

If you can go for re-marketed rpxxxx if you can get hold of them. These are great, many parts can be changed online whilst the N class cannot. You can add cards to slots on the fly, HBA, LAN etc. As stated, the N class are starting to come towards the end of their life cycle.
As far as external disk arrays are concerned, EMC clariions are great one you get them going ... and you have a support contract for them. They do tend to throw disks fairly easily (low tolerance failure). The set up on these can be a nightmare trying getting them to work. The combination of the different types of cards (HBA) with switches and direct connect and Navisphere recognition can be a pain.

HTH
Michael

[Yogeeraj_1]

hi doug!

RPXXXX would be the way to go.

and then depending on the sizing of the servers based on the type of application/database your are running, decide whether to go for one server for each database and application servers.

E.g. if you will be running an Oracle Database and an IAS application server.
I would prefer to have an Application server with much more resources in terms of CPU and memory than the database server.

Again Sizing based on the type type application/database you will be running is very important.

As for Disk Arrays, lots of good solutions are available nowadays on the market: LSI, EMC, etc. SOme of them may be giving even better performances than the XP.

Best regards
Yogeeraj

[Brian M Rawlings]

Doug: I've posted this a couple of times, enhancing it as time passes. It may be of use to you as you attempt to size your new server, to give you plenty of headroom (vs. what you have today).

The figures in the attached spreadsheet are just relative numbers from SPECbench.org and tpc.org, compiled in one handy reference. Hopefully it is self explanatory...

No RP8400 entries, but the RP7410 entries are based on RP8400 audited figures anyway (up to 8-way). They use the same cell boards, CPUs, Backpanel bus speeds, Memory cards, so the performance should be identical up through 8-way, or too close to tell the difference.

Many of the issues and suggestions above must also be considered, but a simple scan of relative machine power may help lots as well. It has worked well for me.

Best Regards... --bmr