Should cluster software be 64bit?

[RW-S]

Hi,
Have a doubt to the Cluster software experts.
Should a cluster software that provides high-availability be 64bit given a 64-bit platform?

My guess is NO.
For the following reasons -
- 64Bit advantage comes if we are dealing
with high quantum of data.
- If we are doing highly computation
intensive work.

[Torsten.]

If you are asking here in hp-ux forum, the answer is yes, because "everything" is 64 bit on hp-ux nowadays.

[RW-S]

No I didn't mean to ask a specific HPUX question here.

I am a Compilers guy. Wanted to ask the cluster experts why they want to a cluster software that is 64-bit. What is that they gain over a 32-bit Cluster software.

or if you can point me to the correct Forum. Its a generic cluster question.

[P Muralidhar Kini]

Hi RW-S,

Check the following links -
* HP-UX server-32 bit vs. 64 bit
http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447626+1275662908777+28353475&threadId=939289

* 32 bit vs 64 bit compilation
http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447626+1274180688283+28353475&threadId=814372

* HP-UX 64-bit evolutionary strategy
http://h21007.www2.hp.com/portal/site/dspp/menuitem.863c3e4cbcdc3f3515b49c108973a801?ciid=0aae5be232695110VgnVCM100000275d6e10RCRD

* In general, 64-bit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Murali

[Dennis Handly]

>Should a cluster software that provides high-availability be 64bit given a 64-bit platform?

>My guess is NO.

Yes, for HP-UX, 32 bit works fine.

>64Bit advantage comes if we are dealing with high quantum of data.

Yes, large quantities.

>If we are doing highly computation intensive work.

I'm not sure how this applies?
For Integrity, the 32 bit smoke and mirrors is pretty efficient.
For x86, it isn't as efficient, with less registers.

[Steven E. Protter]

Shalom,

If you are using HP-UX and your hardware is supported by HP, I'm 99% certain the point is moot.

HP-UX hardware and software has been all 64 bit for a long time. The 11.11 OS supports 32 bit install on PA-RISC.

My answer is yes, not no as you state.

64 Bit OS with enough memory provides a number of advantages. Biggest of which is your application can read data into memory in larger chunks.

The issue is clouded by applications running on the 64 bit OS and server that are running in 32 bit compatibility mode.

If you are doing new hardware, and HP-UX OS 64 bit is your only option.

SEP

[Duncan Edmonstone]

SEP,

> If you are doing new hardware, and HP-UX OS 64 bit is your only option

Maybe you should tell HP's Serviceguard developers this - it's all 32-bit:

# file /usr/lbin/cm* /usr/sbin/cm*
/usr/lbin/cmclconfd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmcld: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmdisklockd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmfileassistd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmlockd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmlogd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmlvmd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmnetd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmproxyd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmserviced: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmsnmpd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmvxd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/lbin/cmvxpingd: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmapplyconf: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmappmgr: commands text
/usr/sbin/cmappmgr.jar: awk program text
/usr/sbin/cmcheckconf: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmcheckvx: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmconfig_change_callout: ascii text
/usr/sbin/cmcp: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmdeleteconf: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmdisklock: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmdisklockcheck: commands text
/usr/sbin/cmdo: commands text
/usr/sbin/cmdprivadm: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmeval: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmexec: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmgetconf: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmgetpkgenv: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmhaltcl: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmhaltnode: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmhaltpkg: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmhaltserv: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmmakepkg: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmmigratepkg: ascii text
/usr/sbin/cmmodnet: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmmodpkg: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmpt_tune: commands text
/usr/sbin/cmquerycl: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmruncl: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmrunnode: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmrunpkg: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmrunserv: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmscancl: ascii text
/usr/sbin/cmsleep: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmstartres: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmstopres: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmsync: commands text
/usr/sbin/cmversion: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmviewcl: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmviewconf: ELF-32 executable object file - IA64
/usr/sbin/cmvxserviced: commands text
# uname -rsm
HP-UX B.11.31 ia64

Seriously for something that is lightweight and doesn't need much memory (which cluster software should certainly be), 32-bit is just fine and may even run a touch faster...

HTH

Duncan

[Stephen Doud]

RW-S didn't ask about Serviceguard initially, but about cluster software in general. However since Serviceguard cluster software is representative of a large volume of customers, it's a good example.

Serviceguard is management-oriented, not data or memory intensive. That is, it is mainly responsible for starting & stopping packages that start and stop applications and it does some monitoring. Therefore, it doesn't need the benefits of 64 bits as might the applications that it starts.

[Emil Velez]

when you compile a executible you make the decision about whether it is a 64 bit executible. 64bit just means larger data structures and the process can allocate and reserve more memory for structures in memory.

The software is compiled for the IA64 chip and runs natively.

[RW-S]

Thanks Folks for your comments!!
That was very helpful.

To summarize -
A Cluster Software (which is actually a management software) does not have a huge memory footprint, neither does it do any high-precision arithmetic or deal with data hence need not be 64-bit.

[Dennis Handly]

>neither does it do any high-precision arithmetic

I'm not sure what this has to do with 64 bit?
Both PA2.0 and IPF have 64 bit registers even in 32 bit mode.
But for x86, it probably matters.