The New HP Support Center

[Michael Steele_2]

Today I received an email announcing the new HP Support Center and I am concerned about losing the ‘once’ best source of research in the name of something 'new'. The ITRC is going away and its time to get ready for "..The NEW HP Support Center..".

RAH!!!!

(* Yeah, right. *)

QUESTION: Does anybody know what it will be like? Better yet, does it work? I mean this with all sincerity: I'm afraid it won't work.

As a long time member of the HPUX forums I have seen what was once an ultra superior UNIX Technical website that started with a fantastic search engine (* 10 -15 years ago the ITRC search engine was the best in the business *) and watched it slowly degrade into just an average UNIX Technical Forum that usually worked but often not. And every time a new version of the ITRC search engine was released it provided less and less for clearly there was a cost to storage of information problem.

Now I more often google 'for profit' and private UNIX forums instead of coming first to the ITRC because "...you just can't get here anymore..." "...even for HP solutions...".

(* Truly, its a said note when you have to go to toolbox.com for an HPUX solution. *)

In the last decade 'new' has never been better for the ITRC and its only meant 'loss'.

In addition there are now multiple HP sources”.. all from HP..” and all having different solutions to the same problem. Once I tried getting the latest and greatest HBA firmware patches for a Superdome and spent over a week getting redirected. I was bouncing around and collecting different solutions to the same question. All with different answers and all stating to ignore the others!!!

Answers from the HP have become subjective. Meaning what one person at HP sees another HP person will see differently. And heuristic. Mmeaning you’re only get their best guess instead of an absolute answer.

New software products HP Service Center which is a trouble ticket application and HP Server Automation which is a windows based GUI replacement for Ignite, appear more like college freshmen projects submitted for a grade than a professionally developed piece of software because neither work.

I feel only foreboding at this new HP Support Center for the reasons listed above.

[Torsten. · Accepted solution]

docs.hp.com was the first strike, itrc will be the next ...


I think the "replacement" will look like this:

http://h30499.www3.hp.com/


:-(

[Michael Steele_2]

For example:

http://docstore.mik.ua/cgi-bin/search

[Stephan._1]

In my opinion everybody that is here around for a longer time does not understand these moves of a so many useful information.

They told us for the move of docs.hp.com that the links inside the ITRC will be fixed, but if I search for a problem my most seen website is "Document moved to BSC".

What about the links in every documentation?

Same will happen here ... I just hope that all the well known guys that contribute a lot more then i ever had the time for will move as well. Otherwise this move will even hit harder.

My 2 cent ...
Stephan

[Doug Burton]

I feel the same way. I hope I'm wrong. Hope it doesn't go the direction HP-UX support (has) seems to be going (I'm trying to be nice):

http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1060955

[Jan van den Ende]

Michael,

you fears are carried broader than only HPUX.

The OpenVMS experience is not any better, sad to say.

:-(

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

[Dennis Handly]

>Torsten: I think the "replacement" will look like this: http://h30499.www3.hp.com/

Yes, that's the new format for the old BSC forum.

One problem I've seen (at least in firefox) is that you need a wider window. And the big issue is there is no horizontal scroll bar giving you a hint the right side is truncated!

[Ismail Azad]

Hi Michael,

Apart from the knowledge base and patch database, considering the forum part , I did read that there would be some enhanced capabilities to the forumers which would include links to images/videos, private messaging, spell check etc. Well that does sound promising. Well I am staying positive and hoping for the best and with the "fast forward" happening as it is termed, let us hope that we see a revival of the "ultra superior UNIX technical website" you saw a decade back.

Well I do know that the vast majority would miss the "ITRC". And so will I.

Regards
Ismail Azad

[Michael Steele_2]

I really can't imagine a situation where I would want to spend the time making a video just to answer a technical question. I mean, what kind of video am I going to shoot? A screen dump of the problem as I scroll along? Possibly. Possibly. But I doubt it.

Am I going to use my cell phone to make this video? Seems logical.

Question: How long are they going to keep these video attachments? Seems like they have a problem now just keeping text attachments.

Also seems like a lot of disk to spend on when an ascii text answer uses so much less disk and still gets the point across at a huge fraction.

Hurrah for video attachments!!! RAH!!! (* NOT *)

[Michael Leu]

I am also very curious about the new Support Center. Hopefully something that HP invented themselves for a change...

What I really like about the ITRC is it's simplicity to access certain areas:
http://forums.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/postanswer.do?threadid=
http://itrc.hp.com/service/mcmItrc/homePageViewCallReq.do?callID=
http://itrc.hp.com/service/patch/patchTree.do?patchid=
http://itrc.hp.com/service/entitlementsadmin/viewSupportAgreementDetails.do?contractID=
(And of course you stay authenticated the whole time, bloody HP Passport session timeout!)


The new Lithium forums (especially the Enterprise Business one) still need a lot of improvement... But hey, to look on the bright side, in those forums you can create sections so if you finally find that post, it should be more readable :-)

[Jim Viera]

Why not, HP support has been on a nosedive for years now. I've worked with HP hardware and software for over 27 years and I can say you don't get what you pay for anymore........

[Hein van den Heuvel]

From what I've seen the change will be disastrous.

Gotta love the Chinese (I get) on the new front page... not!

ismail>> I did read that there would be some enhanced capabilities to the forumers which would include links to images/videos,

Yuck.
Depending on where/when I connect I may pay by the MB.
And certainly I wait by the MB.
I'm not going to bother... when 1KB of text in 1 TCP packet can do the job.

>> private messaging,

Yuck Yuck Yuck... I get that in Email, Facebook, Twitter, AIM, Messenger, Gotomeeting, ....
I don't need an other channel.

Plus, on many customer site 'they' try to shutdown all none-internal chat-channels. Only internal-only tools like say 'Communicator' allowed.

So by adding CHAT capability, the ITRC site may have to become blacklisted by some corporate IT's.

>> spell check etc.

My browser has that, and one probably should write in a 'safe' place with spell checker first and then copy&paste in these nasty tiny windows.

>> Well that does sound promising.

That's your opinion and I repect that, but I think it sounds horrible. KISS!

Do one thing, and do it well.
Change for change sake :-(.

>> Well I do know that the vast majority would miss the "ITRC". And so will I.

Now you are making sense again! :-)

Cheers,
Hein

[Hakki Aydin Ucar]

at least people need time to accustom this new structure, also time is important in new forum page; it sounds like a bit services going slow down with new video ,audio attachments instead of just text answers, and itrc services will be embedded inside a bigger size forum..I wonder about search issues there ?

[likid0]

Yes, you can only fear the worse, for me what they did with docs.hp.com was incredible, it was all in the right order now its just plain ...

If you go to your passport profiles, and go to modify forums profile, you get and idea of whats coming

[Duncan Edmonstone]

What makes the ITRC forums great?

It's not the layout or the points system (definitely not the search engine!)

It's the community. The people who contribute.

If you've already decided the new forums will be awful - well they will be, because the community spirit of the ITRC forums will be broken. I think a little positivity here would go a long way - if the new forums contain things we don't like then we'll persuade HP to change... as part of the new forums I believe HP are setting up a "forums council" made up of both HP and community members (at least they said that on a recent survey they conducted), so we should have the chance to make this work.

And remember this is not the same team that did the docs.hp.com move - the same team that were involved in creating and maintaining the original ITRC forums (Kevin-Paul and Dan G) are involved in this transition - they did get it right first time round. Kevin-Paul has already indicated in this thread:

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1471796

That there are some UI changes coming to the new forums (although they may not be in place by transition time).

HTH

Duncan

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi Folks:

I have to agree with everything Hein said for the reasons he stated while paying tribute (no, I won't use that hated word "kudos") to Duncan's view.

The beauty of the ITRC for the last eleven years has been its simplicity and lack of "cute" adornments. As I've said before, I don't need pretty pictures nor do I ever want to see advertising of any kind -- including HP's!

I dislike the look of the "new" forum with its inane avatars and small font. To me, the whole thing resembles a big game room, not a professional site (it is that, isn't it?).

To Duncan's comments: I agree that we should try to keep an open mind. I have shared my thoughts openly and frequently with Dan G (and his predecessors) and Kevin over many years and more recently granted several hours of telephone and email time to one of HP's consultants who had reached out to me for my views about the pending rework.

I will be very interested to see what finally appears as our new community.

Another concern that has been raised by some of us, publicly here and privately though other channels, is the "Swiss cheese" of dead links that could result from a conversion of the old threads into the new database. We have already seen this with the HP documents and if that also occurs with ITRC threads that say "...see this thread for a possible solution...[ insert old ITRC URL here ]..." then so much more content is rendered trash.

I fear that this train was set in motion over a year ago and that it's far to late to change its course. It makes me recall Newton's first law, except that we are too weak a force to alter the vector.

Regards!

...JRF...

[Michael Steele_2]

Duncan: "...It's the community. The people who contribute..."

I have to disagree in some respect to this comment for I don't come here 'FOR THE COMMUNITIY" In fact, I dread hearing from one or two members because of the smart mouth which is a universal problem amongst all chat rooms. Anonymity allows for the loss of all courtesy and polite etiquette and instead creates monsters. And if some of things being said here were said face to face the speaker would loose teeth.

That, is not community.

I came hear in the beginning for the answers and continue to come here for the answers and its the loss of answers that is being addressed. All have experienced this loss and all are taking the opportunity to voice that loss in this thread.

I also come here for the points. The answering of questions is a method of learning and a way of staying sharp. It's also good preparation for an interview and achievement. I put my affiliation to the ITRC on my resume and its helped me get work. Clients see my rank and it helps.

It really, really helps and someday I hope to one day become an Olympian, which would be a big achievement in my career.

But here for the community? My community is about people I can touch and put a face too and I don't consider any chat room a part of that.

[Steve Post]

I must apologize if I am the guy with the smart mouth. What is in my brain as nice stuff, comes out to the keyboard as grumpy.

If it looks like a chat room, I will probably lose permission to use it. Maybe I can hoax higher ups to let me use it. uh... if it is worth it.

Maybe I can ignore the enhancements and just use the system. I would rather have it work than be pretty. I'll just avert my eyes when it gets pretty and concentrate on the text. I wonder how many useful videos would be uploaded anyway.

[Torsten.]

>> I wonder how many useful videos would be uploaded anyway.


IMHO there are enough other sites like youtube, myvideo, etc ... ;-)


Even HP has any of them already like this

h20464.www2.hp.com/

and others - should be enough.


Honestly, I don't need so much pictures, flash and whatever on the new forum pages, because I need to wait several minutes until a single page has loaded ... the fun will be gone (at least for me).

[Michael Steele_2]

Steve, my comment about some members having a smart mouth wasn't directed at you or any responder to this thread.

But if you're familiar with the forum then you'll have seen some of threads get into a spitting match where a responder / forum member is taking a dig at the author or insulting the intelligence of the author.

This is what I was referring to.

There's no need to call someone a '...dumb ...' in a clever reword just to advertise your cleverness on a professional forum.

[Michael Leu]

Seriously, you guys are complaining about some obscure video features?! The Lithium forums will bring much needed features, like the ability to format a post with fixed width sections. Please don't tell me that isn't useful! (Or editing your post, or formatting your hyperlinks properly)


Just a reminder, these are the three forums as linked form hp.com:

Consumer Support Forum
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/psg

Software Solutions Forum
http://h30501.www3.hp.com/hpsws

Enterprise Business Community
http://h30499.www3.hp.com/hpeb


I expect they will merge the non-SW parts of the ITRC forums into the EB forum. Please also have a quick look at the Consumer forum to see what is possible design-wise. (Much better, eh? ;)

Maybe someone from HP should open a feedback thread for the EB/SW forums to collect all our suggestions for improvement...

[Michael Mike Reaser]

Michael, in addition to the "smart" comments there are the threads where groups of well-known forum contributors will get into a back-and-forth spat over "the" way to accomplish a task. I especially see this in many scripting threads where one side is trying to propose a solution using awk or sed, while the other side tries to solve each and every issue using perl.

I first came to the forums 9 years ago via the login credentials of one of my former employers. I came here for the solutions as well as the opportunity to brainstorm with peers, but stayed because there was a sense of "community" here. Additionally, this gave me a place to professionally keep in touch with many of my former co-workers from when I was with HP in the 80's and 90's.

I created my own ITRC user after leaving that job, and over the past 4 or 5 years have seen these forums change from peers helping peers to newbies demanding that forum members either teach them their jobs or just *do* their jobs, old-timers sniping at old-timers, etc.

When HP shoves this current service over-the-cliff and replaces it with a techie version of Facebook, I'll probably stay for a while but I have a suspicion that my own participation will wither and die.

[Kevin_Paul]

OK, now that the "cat is out of the bag" regarding the upcoming HP Support Center transition, I'd like to jump in here and add my two cents...

Obviously I've been communicating here within the community recently about the fact that the ITRC forums would be transitioning to a new home - but I wasn't able to mention the (big) fact that it wasn't simply the forums that were going to be impacted, but that the entire ITRC support portal, and all of it's related feature services, would be migrating into a new site as well.

As I can only speak for the forums, I won't go into details about the HP Support Center portal itself - but I will certainly make sure my partners that are involved with the overall transition are aware of this thread, and the feedback and comments that have been posted.

I can't address every particular issue that's been raised here regarding the new forums environment, and how today's forums might differ from the ITRC forums of yesteryear. I do appreciate everyone's passion and input, though. And let me assure you that we are trying to listen to YOU - our well-established community - when it comes to making decisions that will impact YOUR community. And one of the big benefits we'll have, moving forward with our partnership with Lithium, is that we can make changes/updates to our community site, in a very timely manner - in response to input from our users, trends in social media, etc. That's not something I've been able to say in the past - the wheels have ground very slowly (if they've ground at all!) when its come to acting on your feedback, or our own ideas/concepts with the legacy ITRC forums.

Yes - some of the "post to post" links are going to be impacted by this migration - there's no simple way around it. BUT - we will be attempting to make sure any post from January 2011 and onward that links to other forum postings will be updated, post-migration, to have it's link directed to the "new" home for the thread being referenced. It involves a lot of manual effort, so we can't do it for every thread that's ever been authored. If there are older threads that you know get used a lot (due to Google searches, popular topics, etc.) feel free to let me know - and I'll try to make sure we address those manually as well.

One thing I can assure you of - the forums WILL NOT become a "marketing" tool. HP will continue to moderate and administer the forums in our new environment just as have in the past in the legacy environment - hands off, for the most part, unless there has been something posted/shared that requires our intervention. We fully expect that the way the forums are used (for our users to help their fellow users resolve problems with their HP products/services/solutions) will remain the same pre- and post- migration. You'll have a new "front end" that provide the means to that end, but the spirit of the community shouldn't be impacted by how you author a post, or what color a particular element on the screen is.

Regarding the interface - and some of the comments here that you've shared. What you see today @ http://h30499.www3.hp.com/hpeb isn't completely representative of what the site may look like after the transition mid-June. As Duncan mentioned, I had already alluded to the fact that we have a re-design coming for our Enterprise Community site. And we're not just moving elements from one location on the page to another - the redesign represents a pretty significant change for the site, and it will bring with it new features and capabilities that you won't find there today. I don't have a specific date on when that work will be complete, but I believe it will be after our migration in mid-June - so stay tuned.

I appreciate that many of our long-time users will continue to ask "why are you even changing things" when it comes to the ITRC forums. All I can ask is that you hang on a bit longer, trust that the new forums will be an improvement in many areas, and know that we have a long-term vision for making them even better.

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi (again):

@ Kevin:

> And one of the big benefits we'll have, moving forward with our partnership with Lithium, is that we can make changes/updates to our community site, in a very timely manner...

In my opinion, had HP cared we would have already seen on-going improvements to the ITRC we now have. There is nothing personal directed to you, or Dan, when I say that many of us tried. Remember the "wish-lists" that Pete Randall used to track? I realize that the decision not to invest was made "above".

> Yes - some of the "post to post" links are going to be impacted by this migration - there's no simple way around it.

I emphatically disagree with that. Wodisch and I (and maybe others) had a conversation about this not long ago. This could be accommodated if the parties doing the conversion were willing to invest a little more effort.

Respectfully,

...JRF...

[Torsten.]

The notification email says


"...
The HP Support Center will be available at no additional cost as part of your warranty, HP Care Pack Service or contractual support agreement with HP..."


Does this mean if I have no support contract or care pack I won't have access?


So then good bye folks ... :-(