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07-04-2008 09:56 AM
07-04-2008 09:56 AM
Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
The One with address 1.3 (whose had OpenVms versione 7.3) can reach Terminal Servers 90L and 90M (eg. with address 1.401 and 1.701), remotely with the following DecNet command
$ MC NCP CONNECT NODE 1.401
and the prompt of the terminal server is given, so I can configure remotely this 90L.
The one with address 1.7 (with OpenVms 8.3) cannot reach for remote management none Terminal Server.
when i give the same command
$ MC NCP CONNECT NODE 1.401
nothing happen, the "$" prompt appear just after.
Have you any suggestion?
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07-04-2008 10:21 AM
07-04-2008 10:21 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
NCP SHOW EXECUTOR
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07-04-2008 10:52 AM
07-04-2008 10:52 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
I could be wrong but does the connection to the terminal server use the MAC address.
So that woudl have to be set (defined in the permanent) database.
On both nodes execute:
NCP SHOW NODE 1.401 CHAR
Are there lines with: Hardware address = 08-00...
Another guess... did you log out from the first node before trying the second?
Hein.
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07-04-2008 11:34 AM
07-04-2008 11:34 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
This the actual situation:
System A
$ mc ncp show known nodes
Node Volatile Summary as of 4-JUL-2008 20:50:39
Executor node = 1.3 (A1)
State = on
Identification = DECnet for OpenVMS AXP V7.3
Active links = 2
Node State Active Delay Circuit Next node
Links
1.7 (A4B) EWA-0 0
1.101 (T101) EWA-0 0
$ mc ncp show known circ
Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 4-JUL-2008 21:13:16
Circuit State Loopback Adjacent
Name Routing Node
EWA-0 on
EWA-1 off
$ mc ncp show node 1.101 char
Node Volatile Characteristics as of 4-JUL-2008 20:59:45
Remote node = 1.101 (T101)
Service circuit = EWA-0
Hardware address = 08-00-2B-9E-45-84
$ mc ncp connect node 1.101
Console connected (press CTRL/D when finished)
->
System B
$ mc ncp show known nodes
Node Volatile Summary as of 4-JUL-2008 20:56:41
Executor node = 1.7 (A4B)
State = on
Identification = HP DECnet for OpenVMS Alpha
Node State Active Delay Circuit Next node
Links
1.3 (A1) EIA-0 0
1.401 (T401) EIA-0 0
$ mc ncp show known circ
Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 4-JUL-2008 21:13:21
Circuit State Loopback Adjacent
Name Routing Node
EIA-0 on
EIA-1 off
$ mc ncp show node 1.401 char
Node Volatile Characteristics as of 4-JUL-2008 21:14:24
Remote node = 1.401 (T401)
Service circuit = EIA-0
Hardware address = 00-00-F8-52-AE-EC
$ mc ncp connect node 1.401 (it remain in wait state)
NOTE also mc ncp loop node 1.401 remain in wait state
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07-04-2008 11:42 AM
07-04-2008 11:42 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
So can you connect to t401 from A, but not B?
Or are you only trying to connect from B?
Could T401 simply be unreachable?
Does a local terminal on the pterminal server work?
Did you use to be able to connect before an upgrade (of VMS) but can not connect anymore, or did you add the OpenvVMS versions difference here just to make confuse us?
I see all different Hardware addresses, but expected 2 being the same.
(Also) try TCP?
Hein.
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07-04-2008 01:14 PM
07-04-2008 01:14 PM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
You probably have Cisco switches or other similar managed switches around, and there are probably VLANs and/or VPNs configured, and you will accordingly need to discuss this network access matter with your network management folks.
This probably doesn't involve OpenVMS at all, but rather this is how your network folks have your local VLAN and local switch(es)/router(s) configured.
Your network folks will need to open up MOP 60-01 and 60-02 protocol access.
http://64.223.189.234/node/61
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07-04-2008 01:50 PM
07-04-2008 01:50 PM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
The network of 1.7 and 1.401 and others, is on circuit EIA-0 and is located to SITE B
each of this two site, has an autonomy administration, managed by different persons.
All the functionality of site A and site B, are well. Servers and Terminals on 90L and PLC on 90M communicate with each other, correctly without problems.
The problem is simply the follow:
The Administrator of the site A, can configure the Terminal server 90L, remotely with MC NCP CONNECT NODE 1.101 or other anywere, directly from his office.
The Administrator of the site B, would want to have the same feature, but he cannot reach remotely 1.401 and others, and so, for any modification he need, he must to go far any time on a phisical terminal locally connected to the specific terminal server.
The Modification that occurred on the site B, is that first there was an Alpha1000 with circuit SVA-0, now there is an Alphaserver DS15 with circuit EIA-0, the terminal servers 90L and 90M are exactly the same. At the change of the server, none changes configuration was made on the 90L and 90M.
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07-04-2008 03:23 PM
07-04-2008 03:23 PM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
Yes we know NCP connect can work. Fine.
No reasone what so ever to suspect OpenVMS V8.3 or VMS for that matter.
This could be as simple as a mis-typed Hardware address, or as hard as funky router (as per Hoff).
You have to go back to the basics... like tripel checking the MAC address. Maybe some ping/arp commands?
Also, so try TPC if the area B termsever supports it. Which node system (MOP) loaded it?
Hein.
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07-04-2008 05:58 PM
07-04-2008 05:58 PM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
The salient overlap here is that MOP uses the DECnet databases to store some of its data. But that is not required; you don't need DECnet around to use MOP.
Your DECnet network is already slightly odd, as I'd expect to see two separate sites to be configured in two separate areas. That saves on the management coordination.
But barring full LAN bridging between the sites, it is a most excellent bet here that the inter-site link is simply not passing the MOP protocols.
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07-06-2008 11:57 PM
07-06-2008 11:57 PM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
Is set host/mop/circ=eia-0/add=00... working ?
Wim
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07-07-2008 05:16 AM
07-07-2008 05:16 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
1.401 90L+
1.402 90M
1.405 90L+
1.406 90L+
1.408 90L+
1.409 90L+
Some have address beginning with 00-.. others with 08-...
I try on all six, but none of them replies to
MC NCP LOOP NODE
I try to reach all the 6 address with command
MC NCP CONNECT NODE 1.xxx
only 1.408 respond.
The command set host/mop/circ=eia-0/add=00.. doesn't work, it reply with
%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image NET$CCR image not found...
May be that when was executed NETCONFIG to someone of the questions of creation DECNET ACCOUNT, FAL, PHONE, etc. was replied in wrong mode.
Maybe that models of terminal servers, aren't manageable remotely. Note, they aren't 90TL, only 90L+ with only LAT protocol, and one 90M.
Now i ask to the customer, to verify very very well with 4 eyes, the hardware address, to avoid confusion between 8 and B, 0 and O, and so on. I think there was a mistake, on commands defining Decnet Database (DEFINE NODE .... HARDWARE .....), or all the terminal servers (except 1.408) have local problems (serial no. too old).
I think that now, after i correct the name of the circuit from SVA-0 to EIA-0, the server and the network work fine.
I will inform you about the reply of the customer, and I will assign points to you. Thanks.
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07-07-2008 05:49 AM
07-07-2008 05:49 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
node address
node name
service circuit
hardware address (the MAC addr)
It helps if the terminal servers are defined with identical node name, node address and hardware address. If they're not consistant then you either can't connect from one node or you'll connect to the wrong terminal server. You can see the permanent database definitions for your terminal servers by entering (for example):
"LIST NODE 1.401 CHAR"
on both nodes. The service circuit MUST match the hardware that each host uses, so if one uses a SVA-0 circuit in it's database should show SVA-0 as the service circuit. If the other node has circuit EWA-0 its nodes should have EWA-0 for their service circuit.
The acid test for connectivity would be to issue the following command from both nodes, but you must have the correct destination MAC address and service circuit for each host:
"MC NCP CONNECT VIA SVA-0 PHYSICAL ADDRESS 08-00-2B-0F-FF-13"
Proper definition of the nodes in the NCP permanent database means you don't have to remember the gory details but you have to keep the information up-to-date or it stops working. Keeping that information updated and consistant can be painful but without the effort you're making yourself more work.
Hope that helps
bob
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07-07-2008 05:50 AM
07-07-2008 05:50 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
Wim
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07-07-2008 06:02 AM
07-07-2008 06:02 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
Wim
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07-07-2008 06:30 AM
07-07-2008 06:30 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
In a NCPSTART.COM file whose execute on the startup procedure the system had the following NCP commands for each terminal server
DEFINE NODE 1.106 NAME T406 HARDWARE 08-00-.... SERVICE CIR EIA-0
SET NODE 1.106 NAME T406 HARDWARE 08-00-.... SERVICE CIR EIA-0
SET NODE T406
So we can use the command
NCP CONNECT NODE with 1.406, with T406 or with Hardware Addres, as we want.
To Wim:
i never use decnet+, only decnet fase IV
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07-07-2008 06:43 AM
07-07-2008 06:43 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
http://standards.ieee.org/regauth/oui/oui.txt
Learned again. I thought only the first 4 address positions were used to denote the supplier. And it's 6.
Wim
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07-08-2008 05:14 AM
07-08-2008 05:14 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
Your NCP definitions have to be consistant across all your nodes or you can't expect consistant behavior, that's first. Second, there should never be any reason that you need to DEFINE and SET node characteristics for a normal system running DECnet during each boot. The permanent database retains the configuration data for that exact purpose. Aren't you getting errors during startup from this?
When you have consistant definitions and your attempts to connect from some nodes still fail, then you look at connectivity or network configuration as Hoff suggested.
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07-08-2008 07:14 AM
07-08-2008 07:14 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
That the startup is issuing SET and DEFINE commands at startup is clearly indicating some DECnet network cleanup is needed, and that all DECnet routing traffic is being sent over the inter-site link are probably not goodness. There are configuration and operational improvements available here, above and beyond (likely) determining why the inter-site link is blocking the MOP protocols.
And it could be that MOP is simply lit on the wrong network controller(s), too.
Stephen Hoffman
HoffmanLabs LLC
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07-08-2008 02:17 PM
07-08-2008 02:17 PM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
Let me briefly summarize:
DECservers and other "MOP clients" do not run DECnet. The fact that they exist at all in the DECnet Phase IV node database is a kludge to associate them with a load image.
The protocols (at ethernet layer 2) you're using for DCservers are usually: MOP (boot / downline load support), Remote Console (NCP CONNECT to a remote device's virtual console port) and LAT (terminal access to systems and reverse LAT printer access from systems).
In addition you're probably running DECnet and TCP/IP.
I recommend that you remove the DECservers from the DECnet databases and use LANCP instead. It does a better job of MOP and Remote Console. If you need to manage multiple DECservers then get TSM (Terminal Server Manager) from the Freeware CD set).
I'd also recommend that you consider moving to DECnet Phase V (aka DECnet-Plus).
It sounds to me as if your WAN doesn't pass all the protocols: DECnet, MOP, Remote COnsole, LAT etc. If you want to continue woth this equipment then you need to fix that. If you can change your equipment then move to TCP/IP as the protocol between the DECservers and the systems, update to a version of terminal server firmware that supports BOOTP and then set everything up carefully.
It's not that hard, but is does require care and attenmtion.
Cheers, Colin,.
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07-08-2008 11:20 PM
07-08-2008 11:20 PM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
1 decserver worked so all protocols must be working.
Wim
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07-11-2008 07:54 AM
07-11-2008 07:54 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
That's true locally, but the remote site needs to have all those protocols enabled on the bridge / router devices at each end of the WAN link.
If it's a TCP/IP only WAN link then the only solution is to "set host" or "telnet" to a node at the remote site and use NCP CONNECT in a LAN environment, not a WAN.
It's all good fun and becoming a more common problem as people migrate from extended LANs using bridging to IP only WAN services.
Cheers, Colin (http://www.xdelta.co.uk).
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07-16-2008 04:50 AM
07-16-2008 04:50 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
Last update is that only T402 (90M) and T407 (90L+) are not reachable on his own LAN, from NCP CONNECT NODE.
I think, that the mac-address printed on the box of these terminal server, was wrong.
I asked to the customer, to connect with a terminal locally, and inquire from the local command prompt the mac-address, to see if it correspond to the one printed on the box.
...unfortunately now they have no hurry! we must wait.
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07-28-2008 08:37 AM
07-28-2008 08:37 AM
Re: Differenze between NCP on Openvms Versions?
T402 Hardware 00-60-6D-9B-D8-A3
T407 Hardware 00-00-F8-50-12-36
I try search on
http://www.coffer.com/mac_find/
this is the result:
Search results for "00-60-6D-9B-D8-A3"
MAC Address
Prefix Vendor
00606D Digital Equipment Corp.
Search results for "00-00-F8-50-12-36"
MAC Address
Prefix Vendor
0000F8 Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC)
Now I'm sure that mac-address are correctly and that there is a local problem on these 90L+ and 90M. The customer don't know as manage locally these units, so I will can verify the situation only on-site, i don't know when... Thanks for all.