HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name

[Peter Barkas]

I suspect that this is a CIFS problem, but it is possible that I am missing a C patch or that upgrading to OpenVMS 8.4 may fix the problem.

I will log a call with HP but wondered if anyone is able to reproduce the problem or confirm that it is not a problem on 8. 4?

When an ODS2 filename is 39 characters the "." disappears and CIFS presents the file type as part of the file name.

For example:

123456789012345678901234567890123456789.txt

is presented as:

123456789012345678901234567890123456789txt

[Jess Goodman]

I can confirm that this problem also occurs on my system:

HP I64VMS OPENVMS V8.4 (update 8)

HP I64VMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 (PS2_11)

--------------------

Directory command from DCL on VMS:

Directory DISK$ODS2TEST:[CIFSTEST]

12345678901234567890123456789012345.TXT;1        0.50KB  28-JAN-2014 22:03:31
123456789012345678901234567890123456.TXT;1          1KB  28-JAN-2014 22:03:23
1234567890123456789012345678901234567.TXT;1         1KB  28-JAN-2014 22:02:56
12345678901234567890123456789012345678.TXT;1        1KB  28-JAN-2014 22:02:49
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.TXT;1    0.50KB  28-JAN-2014 22:02:36

Total of 5 files, 4KB

-----------------------

LS command from samba cilent (SAMBA$EXE:SAMBA$SMBCLIENT) on I64 VMS 8.4:

Domain=[VMSCIFS] OS=[OpenVMS] Server=[Samba 3.0.28a]
  .                                   D        0  Tue Jan 28 21:55:16 2014
  ..                                  D        0  Tue Jan 28 21:52:26 2014
  12345678901234567890123456789012345.TXT             465  Tue Jan 28 22:03:31 2014
  123456789012345678901234567890123456.TXT             556  Tue Jan 28 22:03:23 2014
  1234567890123456789012345678901234567.TXT             536  Tue Jan 28 22:02:56 2014
  12345678901234567890123456789012345678.TXT             871  Tue Jan 28 22:02:49 2014
  123456789012345678901234567890123456789TXT             366  Tue Jan 28 22:02:36 2014

                9297 blocks of size 512. 64256 blocks available

--------------

DIR command from Command Prompt on Windows XP:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\goodman>dir \\172.20.90.42\ODS2TEST\
 Volume in drive \\172.20.90.42\ODS2TEST is ods2test
 Volume Serial Number is 1188-2DDB

 Directory of \\172.20.90.42\ODS2TEST

01/28/2014  04:55 PM    <DIR>          .
01/28/2014  04:52 PM    <DIR>          ..
01/28/2014  05:03 PM               465 12345678901234567890123456789012345.TXT
01/28/2014  05:03 PM               556 123456789012345678901234567890123456.TXT
01/28/2014  05:02 PM               536 1234567890123456789012345678901234567.TXT
01/28/2014  05:02 PM               871 12345678901234567890123456789012345678.TXT
01/28/2014  05:02 PM               366 123456789012345678901234567890123456789TXT
               5 File(s)          2,794 bytes
               2 Dir(s)   1,106,640,896 bytes free

-----------------------

Luckily for us we do not use ODS2 operationally anymore.

Jess Goodman

AccuWeather, Inc.

http://www.accuweather.com

[Peter Barkas]

Jess, thank you for taking the time to confirm that this is also a problem on Intel OpenVMS 8.4.

I would prefer to use ODS5, but I cannot implement this immediately.

HP Support have reproduced the problem on both CIFS and Advanced Server.

It has been suggested by HP that CIFS may not be changed because the behaviour is consistent with Advanced Server.

[John Gillings]

>It has been suggested by HP that CIFS may not be changed because the behaviour is consistent with Advanced Server.

This is a classic example of what seems to be the new "engineering excellence" in HP OpenVMS engineering. Creative excuses to not fix manifest bugs.

By this logic no bug that ever gets into the wild will ever be fixed "because someone might depend on it".

[Brad McCusker]

John -

I agree with your concern about not fixing bugs "becuase that's the way its always been".  But, I'm not so sure that is the case here.

PATHWORKS implemented the "float the dot" implementation that allowed file names to have greater than 39 characters before the extension.  I recall we broke this at some point, I think trying to fix this exact problem (I am not sure if our "break" ever got released).  I believe we then ended up documenting a limitation or restriction regarding certain file names on ODS2.  I don't recall and I can't find what that limitation was.

It is possible that the limitation is this exact situation.  I've searched through a lot of my old stuff and I can't find anything.  I have a feeling it was all in the internal notes conference (HYDRA notes if there are any HP folks reading who still have access to Notes).

Just out of curiosity, what happens when you have a 40 character file name?  Does it float the dot properly?

Brad McCusker

Software Concepts International

www.sciinc.com

[Brad McCusker]

The more I think about this, I don't believe the behavior documented here matches the PATHWORKS behavior - does anyone still have a PATHWORKS V6 or Advanced Server machine that can test this? 

When testing, include filenames that exceed 39 characters, please. 

Brad McCusker

Software Concepts International

www.sciinc.com

[john Dite]

Hi,

I can confirm that on my ALPHA OpenVMS V8.3 system using Advanced Server V7.3B  

on an ODS-2 disk a file named

123456789012345678901234567890123456789.txt;1

gets presented as

123456789012345678901234567890123456789TXT

John

[Brad McCusker]

Thanks John. 

As I think about it, I think that makes sense.  There is no way for us to know if that dot after the 40th character is a real dot or a pseuod dot for an eventual floated dot.  One might quickly think that we should know its real becuase there is no "__2E" floowing it (which is the "floated dot") and I do believe that is what we once tried to fix and ended up concluding that it couldn't be fixed (without breaking something else).  Or something like that. 

Oh what I would give to have access to those old notes conferences - I am pretty sure this was thoroughly hashed out at the time.  I also thought it was documented - probably in some release notes somewhere, but, again I couldn't find them anywhere.

Brad McCusker

Software Concepts International

www.sciinc.com

[Doug Phillips]

Curiosity made me fire up the old MV3100 with OpenVMS V6.2 and:

$ admin show vers

PATHWORKS V6.1 for OpenVMS (Advanced Server)

! from Windows File Manager in Advanced Server share
! New -> Text File -- created 2 files,  39.3 and 40.3

! the dot disappeared on the 39.3 file.

! looking from CMD

K:>dir/b
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890.TXT
123456789012345678901234567890123456789TXT

! from vms

$ dir/col=1/nohead
DKA0:[USER.DOUG.TEST]123456789012345678901234567890123456789.0__2ETXT;1
DKA0:[USER.DOUG.TEST]123456789012345678901234567890123456789.TXT;1

! vms sees a dot

! Use Windows File Manager to rename the 39 file, inserting the dot before the TXT

K:\>dir/b
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890.TXT
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.TXT

! rename kept the dot

! from vms

$ dir/col=1/nohead

123456789012345678901234567890123456789.0__2ETXT;1
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.__2ETXT;1

! the dot is there and the extension is now escaped

So, rename treats the names differently. Interesting.

[Brad McCusker]

From the PATHWORKS V6.1 release notes (not sure if this ever appeared in any Advanced Server release notes):

        7.3.1 OpenVMS File Names with a Dot at Position 40 Are Not

              Displayed Properly from the Client

              Problem:

              If a file created natively on an OpenVMS system has a dot

              at position 40 of its file name, the dot does not appear in

              the file name when viewed from a client.

              Solution:

              If you want a file that is created on an OpenVMS system to

              be viewed correctly from the client, give the file a name

              that does not have a dot at position 40.

              When performing an operation from the client on an OpenVMS

              file that has a dot at position 40 of its name, treat the

              file as if it has no dot. When you view a file created

              on the client, a dot at position 40 in the file's name is

              displayed, and you can perform any other operations on that

              file as you normally would, including the dot in the file

              name.