Newbie has some questions regarding openVMS 7.1

[Torsten Ermlich]

Hi,

I started my new job 01. september, and one of the old machines is an DEC AlphaStation 255 running openVMS 7.1.
Looking for documentation, backup-tapes, etc. showd me that nothing has done during the past ~15 years - and some data has been already lost about 5 years ago.

Now I'd like to create at least one (1) backup manually, and hopefully one backup every night.
My "ir-roots" are MS-based, with some good experiences in linux. Currently I have two mirrored linux systems acting as nfs-, cifs- and iSCSI-servers. The unix/linux-systems are using the nfs-shares, windows-xp & -7 systems are using iSCSI, and some dos/win98/os2-systems are using cifs.

Two systems are generating problems: one HP/UX9 system, and the openVMS one:
I'm not able to mount an nfs-share.
"help nfs" tells to use "HELP UCX PRODUCT_OVERVIEW NFS" (which gives no hints on usgae), and "help mount" isn't helpful, too.

Here are some system-data:
$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI( "VERSION")
V7.1
$

$ show logical *tcp*

(LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)

(LNM$JOB_80D73FC0)

(LNM$GROUP_000001)

(LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)

(DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)
%SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name *TCP*
$

How can I mount an nfs-share (like 10.4.10.2/255.255.255.0:/srv/nfs/pds).

Thanks a lot! :)

Have a nice day
Torsten

[Craig A Berry]

Assuming you have UCX (now called TCP/IP Services), documentation on using NFS is available at:

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6527/6527pro_001.html#manage_nfs_commands_sec

That's for a TCP/IP version corresponding to a somewhat later version of the operating system than what you're running, but I think it's the oldest version readily available online. There is no guarantee all the capabilities described there are available in your older version. There is also no guarantee that you even have TCP/IP networking, or that you have the DEC/Compaq/HP product rather than one of the third-party networking stacks.

Please post the results of:

$ ucx show version

which will at least confirm you are running ucx. You might also try:

$ ucx show nfs_server

to see the status of the NFS server (if you even have one running).

[Torsten Ermlich]

Here are the requested information:
$ ucx show version

Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.1
on a AlphaStation 255 4/298 running OpenVMS V7.1

$ ucx show nfs_server
%UCX-E-NFSERROR, Error communicating with NFS
-UCX-E-NOAPPLIC, The UCX PAK is not enabled
$

[tsgdavid]

When you say that you are unable to mount the NFS share, what does that mean? Do you get an error message? Do you have any diagnostic information from either the client or the server?

Dave

[tsgdavid]

Apparently you do not have the required software license to use NFS.

Can you share with us the output of the
$ SHOW LICENSE command? This will tell you what licenses are currently active on the system.

Has this system mounted NFS disks previously or is this a new thing?

Dave

[Torsten Ermlich]

All mount-commands I found refer to an TCPIP-shell (I have no idea what the correct term of its is), like:
TCPIP> mount ...
But I don't get there ... so I'm not sure if I use the wrong syntax, or that particular things aren't available at all.


$ SHOW LICENSE

Active licenses on node VMSAFP:

------- Product ID -------- ---- Rating ----- -- Version --
Product Producer Units Avail Activ Version Release Termination
ACAS-RT DEC 1300 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
C DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
DMQ-RTO DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
DVNETEND DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
DW-MOTIF DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
DW-MOTIF-UI-JAPANE DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
FORTRAN DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
MMOV-RT DEC 100 100 0 0.0 (none) (none)
OPEN3D DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
OPENVMS-ALPHA DEC 12 0 A 0.0 (none) (none)
OPENVMS-ALPHA-ADL DEC 100 0 100 0.0 (none) (none)
UCX-IP-CLIENT DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
VMS-UI-JAPANESE DEC 12 A 0 0.0 (none) (none)
VMSCLUSTER DEC 1050 H 0 0.0 (none) (none)
$

[tsgdavid]

Torsten,
Here is a related thread that may help:

http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1252208

[Torsten Ermlich]

I think I did the trick:
ucx mount dnfs:/host=IP-ADDRESS/path="/srv/nfs/backups"
%UCX$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /srv/nfs/backups mounted on _VMSAFP$DNFS1:[000000]

$ set default
_Directory: _VMSAFP$DNFS1:[000000]
$ dir

Directory VMSAFP$DNFS1:[000000]

BIN-25102010.TAR;1 LOST$5KFOUND.DIR;1 USERS-25102010.TAR;1
USR-25102010.TAR;1 ZYGO.DIR;1

Total of 5 files.
$

So, now I can start writing an first backup to dnfs1: ... can I?

[tsgdavid]

It sounds like you are all set, assuming that

1) you have a good backup of your system disk that you can restore by some means when the system is down (in case your system disk is lost and you cannot boot).

2) you have a way to recover any other disks to their original state (directory structure, permissions, etc.)

I am not sure if you will be using VMS BACKUP or a tar utility, or something else to perform your backup. It would be advisable to document and test any recovery plans that apply.

I have not used an NFS disk to backup VMS files, so I am not sure of the best method, but it appears that recovering data requires that you have the system up and running and able to access the NFS disk.

[Torsten Ermlich]

I'd like to use the VMS Backup command.
tar is terrible, and on linux/unix I try to use star whereever its possible ;)

No, currently there's no second hard-disc (I guess I'll have to buy one), no system-wide backup, no chance to restore the installation ...

I just did some tests like:
copy *.* dnfs1:[nozomi.pds3d]*.*;*
and this worked fine so far.

Which command-sequence would you prefer to run backups with the VMS Backup program?

[tsgdavid · Accepted solution]

If your goal is to have a complete copy of the system disk that could be restored to a bootable disk, I would use a command similar to the following (keeping in mind that backing up an online disk may not be recommended for some files e.g. a database):

$ BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK SYS$SYSDEVICE: VMSAFP$DNFS1:[000000]vms20101116.bck/save

add a /VERIFY qualifier, if you want, but you will get a lot of mismatches for files that have changed while the backup is in progress.

If you don't add /VERIFY, I would consider listing the backup saveset to verify that you can read it with:

$ BACKUP/LIS VMSAFP$DNFS1:[000000]vms20101116.bck

I don't know how you would be able to restore this to a disk that is not booted. If you cannot come up with a tape drive, to connect to this system, you may want to create a complete copy on another disk that you can boot in an emergency.

Other people may have other suggestions for you.

[Jan van den Ende]

Dave,

for system disk backup this does not look your best option: you need a running system to get NFS going, but then, you can not restore the system disk ( you CAN restore selected files ! )

Does this system not have any tape device?

If you HAVE one, use THAT!

From an image backup of the system disk a working system CAN be rebuild.

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

[Torsten Ermlich]

Prost (oder: zum Wohl) ;)

No, currently it doesn't have any tape-drives, external hard-disks, or any other hardware-backup-units.

I think I'll attach an Sony SDT-9000 tape-unit to the system, as that's the mostly used tape-unit here (except the DAT320 drives).

Have a nice day
Torsten

[tsgdavid]

Torsten,
To summarize what you probably want to do (assuming that you can have the system down to do backup):

1) shutdown the system and power it off
2) attach SCSI tape drive
3) power the system on and boot from a CD
(you do have a CD don't you? You will need one if you have to restore)

4) from the menu select the option to access the DCL command line
5) MOUNT/OVERRIDE=ID disk-device
6) INIT tape-device label
7) BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY/REW disk-device: tape-device:vms20101116.bck
8) LOGOUT and shutdown the system
9) power the system off and disconnect the SCSI tape drive
10) Reboot the system normally

You would have some other options and flexibility if you had a second disk in the system that could contain a copy of the system disk. Disk drives are cheap!

[Jan van den Ende]

Torsten:

Enschueldigung fuer die falsche Nahme!

Der stammte noch auch ein eheres Atwort, aber es sollte doch nicht sein!

That 's why I give you another:

Zum Wohl!

Ich spende Eins.

jpe

[Torsten Ermlich]

Dave,

till now I haven't found any CD ...
But its good to know that we need one!

I'll check that tomorrow.

Have a nice day!
Torsten

[Torsten Ermlich]

Don't worry, Jan ;)

I'll take it, as long as its blond & icy ;)

cu
Torsten

[Andy Bustamante]

You're running a seriously out of date o/s and TCPIP version. At the very least, you can upgrade to TCPIP 5.1 with some patches. Do you have software support for this system? If so, you should check for CD kits possibly boxed away in a purchasing office. If not, you'll need to discuss "right to upgrade" with an HP sales critter.

Get a tape drive with enough tapes that you don't rely on a single copy. With a second hard drive, you can safely test your tape backups to a new bootable system disk. You can also create disk to disk backups of key files.

[Torsten Ermlich]

I guess we have ... nothing.
The whole system was bought in 1996 or 1997, as part of an laboratory-equipment.
In 2004 or 2005 an massive data-loss happened, but as I started working there 01.09.2010 I have no real idea what happened.
There is no backup-unit, there were no handbooks, no system-wide documentation, no cd-roms, so I guess there's no service-agreement or stuff like that.

I'll do some more investigations today ;)

Have a nice day
Torsten

[tsgdavid]

Torsten,
You should find the CD or acquire one. It does not need to have the same version of VMS that you are running.

Meanwhile, you may want to go ahead and make a backup on tape so you will at least have one. You can backup to tape on the running system. Just be sure to include the /IGNORE=INTERLOCK and /IMAGE qualifiers on the BACKUP command.

You will still need to power the system off to connect/disconnect your SCSI tape drive.

If you install a second disk in your system, you could have two bootable copies of the disk. You would also have the option of booting from one disk and restoring to the other (without the need for a CD). This will work as long as both disks aren't corrupted at the same time)

[Torsten Ermlich]

tsgdavid,
currently I'm building an external scsi-box with one tape-unit (Sony SDT-9000), one SyJet-drive, an 9GB harddisk and an Yamaha CD-burner.

Right now I'm waiting for some cables, and I have to look for an scsi-terminator.

Hopefully I'll get all missing parts during this week, so I'd start doing a real backup on the weekend or early next week.

Shutting-down or rebooting the system ist not a problem, b/c we can't use that system in daily business due to the massive data-loss ~5 years ago ... it sounds funny, but it hasen't been used since that.

Have a nice day
Torsten

[Andy Bustamante]

Rather than invest time in restoring a system of this vintage to production, consider dropping an upgrade in. Look for the Stromasys virtual Alpha product. This gives you the chance to update the operating system and migrate your application.