Seem to forgot how to add users.

[John Gillings]

Janin,

>Since the, the need for concealed devices
>to be defined with translation_attribute
>/TERMINAL has been lifted. Of course,
>being VMS, it has not been removed since
>that could break existing code.
>That is, it is now fully functional to
>define a concealed logical as
>DISKA:[topdir.subdir.]
>where DISKA is a (again concealed!!)
>logical name for DSA111, or DKB105.

I beg to differ.

The restriction that a "rooted-device logical name" be comprised only of physical device specifications has never been lifted. Granted, there may be some circumstances where you can get away with unsupported definitions, but there are still many cases where they definitely will NOT work as you expect. Please don't confuse what (apparently) "works" with what is formally supported. (hint, try your logical names with different values for SET DEFAULT, I'm sure you'll find the results entertaining)

Although the documentation could be clearer, you won't find any examples or cases in OpenVMS where a rooted device is defined with anything other than a physical device name. Nor will you find anything that states that it is legal to use a logical name in place of the device name. You will also find statements like:

"With rooted-directory logical names you can hide eight additional levels in the rooted-directory logical name and effectively nest 16 levels of directories."

If it were possible to nest rooted-device logical names, the nesting limit for directrories would be infinite.

Furthermore, if you call any of the support centres complaining that such a logical name is not working properly, you will be instructed to redefine it in a supported form.

Bottom line, is if you want to be sure your logical names work correctly in all circumstances, define them in terms of physical devices, or use something like DEFINE_CONCEALED.COM to resolve everything for you.

[Jan van den Ende]

John,

If your statement is true, why then does HP itself use constructs like
SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.CDSA.]
SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.CPQSNVIEW.]
SYS$SYSDEVICE:[WEBES.]

I never knew SYS$SYSDEVICE to be a physical device, and actually it DOES translate into DSA1:

There is a very good rationale for this:
suppose you are doing a rolling upgrade.
During the transitions you have two DIFFERENT
physical devices being SYS$SYSDEVICE, depending on what phase of the transition the node you are referencing is in. Would you really want two DIFFERENT sets of definitions, and maintain them, and prevent them from getting confused?
(btw, _IS_ DSAxxx a physical device? From the view of nearly all VMS functionality it may BEHAVE like one, but to me only the MEMBERS are physical devices!).

How my previous post became signed "Janin" I don't know, but that also should have been


Jan

[John Gillings]

Jan,
We can take this discussion off line. Send me mail. My name with a dot at hp.com.

[Jan van den Ende]

John,

thanks for the offer.
Only, next 4 week I will probably be nowhere near any computer (unless a digital photocamera qualifies), so it will be some time before I can take it up.

For now:
I am in to catching up on sleep, sunshine, laziness, good books, bicycle rides, good food, and lots of beer!.

Hope to meet you all again in about 1 month's time!


Jan