Source code listings and SW CDs for Itanium systems

[abrsvc]

Since I can't seem to get an answer from HP...

I need the source listing CDs for V73-2 (Alpha and Vax) and V8.3. Any idea how to purchase them?

I also need the software CDs for V8.3 and the layered products (I have the licenses) since the CDs were damaged. Purchase location?

[P Muralidhar Kini]

Hi,

>> Since I can't seem to get an answer from HP...
Have you tried connecting with HP through the "Office of OpenVMS Programs"
interface. i.e. you need to send your query to -
OpenVMS.Programs@hp.com.

Regards,
Murali

[abrsvc]

I have not tried that route, but I will now. Previous attempts have been through "sales". But... since I personally am a small company and am currently working for another small company, I get no response. Most inquiries end up with questions like: VMS??? Many do not evwen know what it is and have no interest in trying to assist. I find it surprizing that when a customer wants to spend money, that there is a lack of response to receive it...

[P Muralidhar Kini]

Hi,

>> I need the source listing CDs for V73-2 (Alpha and Vax) and V8.3. Any idea how to
>> purchase them?
The following link should help you -
http://h21007.www2.hp.com/portal/site/dspp/menuitem.863c3e4cbcdc3f3515b49c108973a801?ciid=6108078442f02110078442f02110275d6e10RCRD

Regards,
Murali

[P Muralidhar Kini]

Hi,

>> I have not tried that route, but I will now.
>> Most inquiries end up with questions like: VMS???
For any query on OpenVMS where you want a answer from HP, please
consider sending the query to the email address that i have provided.
You would get a response at the earliest.

Regards,
Murali

[P Muralidhar Kini]

Also,

>> I also need the software CDs for V8.3 and the layered products (I have
>> the licenses) since the CDs were damaged. Purchase location?
Have you tried connecting with the local HP customer support for this.
They may tell you where you can find this based on where you are located.

Some useful links with respect to OpenVMS -
http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Software
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Murali

[abrsvc]

Thanks for the pointers. I have been to those locations in the past. Perhaps the most telling is the following quote:

"AllianceONE does not provide listings kits. Partners may order them from HP through the normal ordering process."

To date, all attempts to do as mentioned above, have met with either no response or a complete lack of knowledge on how to purchase the items in question. Please note that I am looking to PURCHASE these. I have the order numbers etc. What I don't have is anyone at HP willing to allow me to make a purchase. I will send an Email to the address specified and will await a response.

Thanks for the assitance.
Dan

[P Muralidhar Kini · Accepted solution]

Hi,

>> I will send an Email to the address specified and will await a response.
Yes. Thats the way to go.
The "Office of OpenVMS Programs" is meant specifically to help answer any
customer queries on OpenVMS.
I will also put a word across to them that your email is about to come.

Good luck.

Also, Refer the following link which says how you can thank the forum -
http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/helptips.do?#28

Regards,
Murali

[Shriniketan Bhagwat]

Hi,

Also note: contacting the â Office of OpenVMS Programsâ is the one of the way to get the official response from HP.

Regards,
Ketan

[P Muralidhar Kini]

Hi,

I have put a word across to "Office of OpenVMS Programs" about your
requirement. Once you send a mail, you should get a quick response.

Regards,
Murali

[abrsvc]

I forwarded the initial request I sent to an HP rep along with the entire email string. We'll see what happens...

Thanks all for the assist.

FWIW: I still have the microfiche from V1 through V5.4 and all of the listings up to V7.2-1. If anyone needs some history...

Dan

[Jon Pinkley]

"FWIW: I still have the microfiche from V1 through V5.4 and all of the listings up to V7.2-1. If anyone needs some history..."

Quite a bit of difference in the size of the microfiche V1.0 kit compared to V5.4.

Another question is, do you still have a microfiche reader?

Jon

[abrsvc]

Yes, I have a fiche reader.

V1 has about 20 sheets total.

V5.4 (the last on fiche) has over 450 for VMS and another 300 or so for DecWindows.

Tne Sources took up 3 reels of 6250BPI tape (Still have those as well with nothing to read them...)

Dan

Remember when backup was standalone only?

Remember before backup? DSC??

[Bob Blunt]

Dan, if you or your customer have a "base rep" through whom you purchase hardware or software support they might have contact information about selling the subscriptions you need.

This URL should give you the specific order numbers for the various distribution products: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/swcat/us/swprodlibs.html

There's a link under the list of distributions but it doesn't look as valuable as implied: http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/contact_us.html

Honestly, though, this is not a unique problem as many of my very large customers have had the very same issue. There is an internal link that employees can access to order these type products and the contacts there have said that you should be able to order through any sales organization as long as you've got a way to pay and have the correct part number to order. In your case since you're wanting to buy specific versions of the source listings and a quarterly software subscription you may need to request specific part numbers. The problem is getting those order numbers. I'll see if I can find some more contact information but keep in mind that it'll be US-oriented.

bob

[abrsvc]

Heres the frustrating part. We currently have an active subscription and receive hte Alpha software updates every quarter. All I need is the software to test the Itanium platform for future upgrade to that platform. The listings CDs are for support purposes. I have been able to utilize the V7.2-1 listings successfully in tracking down a number of issues as the code I was checking has not changed much, but it would have been much easier with the correct source versions. I just find it hard to believe that any cmopany would make it so difficult to attempt to make a purchase.

I even provided all of the order numbers with descriptions.

Dan

[Bob Blunt]

Dan, unfortunately I know too well what you're saying.

Because the majority of us are "on the customer side" of the eguation we're not in a position to reinvent HP's wheel. I know that working with resellers and VARs can make things much worse if you're unable to get them to handle the business you or your customer is offering. Some of them refuse to write contracts for support, some of them refuse to sell specific part numbers. Sometimes the problem isn't the reseller itself but something happens inside HP and it all goes haywire. Been living with that myself since 2002.

I really hope that the pointers and recommendations that Murali gave will be beneficial and you can get a good, reasonibly quick solution. Some of this has become complicated because there are the "old ways" things worked and then when Itanium/Integrity licensing came out some of the "old ways" got redesigned. Some of this is due to the "operating environment" scheme that was implemented and some was caused by changing the mechanisms for ordering and provisioning internally. VAX and Alpha software and O/S ordering works one way and IA64 goes another.

Murali recommended the OpenVMS Programs office as the go-to contact. This is a well-intentioned move but in case you don't get any further then you might want to contact some in product management directly. Ann McQuaid or John Egolf.

As far as ordering specific versions? For instance if you wanted to order the OpenVMS/Alpha V7.3-2 O/S kit the order number would be QA-MT1AA-W8. The people who fill that order would ask "what version" because it's not specific to the part number. To specify that, the part is: QA-MT1AA-W87.32 I'd try that same schema for the listings CDs, add "7.32" on the end of the main part number.

You mentioned that your customer is, at some time in the future, moving to OpenVMS on Integrity. My gut feel is that until you/they purchase to make that migration and get real IA64 license PAKs you're going to have trouble getting the O/S release. If you can get a *HP* sales contact for your customer/area to assist you when that migration starts you'll be in a much better place. Otherwise I feel that you're going to have a tough time getting the distribution and the OE PAKs to do any migratory testing in advance.

[abrsvc]

RE: Itanium software

I would ask why the hobbiest licenses exist if the software CDs are not available. What good are the licenses?

I am a small company of 1 with limited $$ for capital expenditures. I was able to acquire a small used integrity box that I intended to use to test a few code modules to determine the effort required to "port" a large software package for a client. While I can examine the code, I must test some of hte macro-32 code for portability. Some changes were required for the VAX to Alpha port, and I suspect more will be required due to the 64 bit addressing.

I can't afford to purchase the software outright and thought that the hobbiest program was the ideal solution for me. I also play with VAX and Alpha machine coding at home. The Itanium platform was to be the next addition to the farm.

Since this effort was not to produce nor to sell a package, why the hesitation or reluctance to send out hte software? I have signed the hobbiest agreement and intend to abide by it.

Hopefully something will come through.

BTW: I haven't spoken to Ann yet, and dealt with her in the past (when still at DEC/HP)

Dan

[Bill Pedersen]

As a company of one you can join DSPP. No charge. You can request OpenVMS license paks, no charge. You can get distribution of base software - no charge - full kit.

Source listings is another matter. That you have to pay for. You also have to pay for service.

But, you can get the starting software and licenses, as well as annual renewals without issue as an HP DSPP Member.

The technical resources through DSPP might be able to help with the issues of buying the source listings. Not knowing the complexity of what you are trying to port and not knowing what aspects of internals you are looking for in the source I can not advise as to the specific need for the source.

In reading your post it appears you have been accustomed to having source to review and peruse. Coming from a different side of the street I am not sure they are really that important. But then I am fully aware that everyone has their own style and comfort levels.

As far as product marketing, John Egolf is probably better as a source.

Office of OpenVMS Programs is usually responsive, especially where there are technical questions.

Bill.

[B Claremont]

I can help you out with 8.3 media. Contact me offline at info at migrationspecialties.com

[abrsvc]

RE: Need for sources.

In my current contracted job, I was able to locate and resolve an outstanding problem that was causing processes to go compute bound. It turns out that the process had essentially lost all context because it was being shutdown. The loop turned out to be within the SMG code. Having the source listings allowed me to see what the code was attempting and also to locate the coding problem that initiated the loop. It was an applications error.

Perhaps my dependence on the source listings comes from work during the VAX to Alpha port while at DEC and from field support for drivers and internals in general. In short SDA is my friend and I use it frequently to track down obscure problems that "normal" debug techniques can't detect.

RE: software CDs.

Both VAX and Alpha software is available for download. The Itanium code is not. Part of the hobbiest program allows the user to try code for a hobby and that is good. The more exposure to VMS the more likely the users to realize hhow god it actually is!! That being said, the hobbiest site indicates that there is a cost to the Itanium distribution. I have no problem with that. I just can't find anyone from whom to purchase it.

I will followup with the last reply.

Thanks,
Dan

[abrsvc]

I am currently in contact with reps in response to the email sent as directed earlier. I will report the final outcome should others encounter similar issues.

Thanks to all for the assistance.

Stay tuned for more results.

Dan

[John Gillings]

Ah yes, unfortunately the old Digital heritage "cheque book slap" has survived through Compaq to HP.

Picture the customer slapping their chequebook across face of the sales person and shouting "TAKE MY MONEY!"

I never could understand why the company seemed so intent on making it so difficult for people to purchase their products :-(