VMS Emulator

[Dale Samson]

Hi

I've got an Alphaserver 2000 model 5/300 running OpenVMS 6.2, which is around 10 years old. There's a legacy Ingres application on the server, which is even older, and which makes use of VMS file versions, so it's not particularly portable to other OS types, and VMS / Ingres is not in our technical strategy anyway.

I'm worried that the server, after years of unblemished service, is now beginning to exhibit various faults (most recently the graphics adapter on the console failing). I'd like to port the whole thing over to a more robust server, ideally a Windows box, and run a VMS emulator on it.

Does anyone have any tips on
a) an emulator for a Windows environment; and
b) how easy it is to port the OS and data onto it

If fairly new to this forum, so if I've trodden on any toes by mentioning the W word, then apologies in advance ;-)

[Ian Miller.]

2nd alphaservers of less vintage than yours are available but the version of vms may be an issue.

the commercially supported emulator is charon-axp from sri
http://www.softresint.com/charon-axp/index.htm
http://www.migrationspecialties.com/Emulator-Alpha.html

[Jan van den Ende]

Dale,

>>>
I'd like to port the whole thing over to a more robust server, ideally a Windows box,
<<<

How many Winedoze boxes have you encountered that have > 10 "years of unblemished service"?

But I am sure this thread will attract the attention of Charon retailers, which will be able to make you an offer.

And although I personally strongly favor upgrading VMS in any case, those emulator guys are generally able to supply any old version as well.
And really, migrating to Charon is as hard as restoring a Backup.

hth

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

[Hoff]

A properly-written hardware emulator is and should be indistinguishable from real hardware.

Realize that if you choose emulation, your tool chain and your supported configuration gets larger and more complex -- and I'm not specifically referring to Windows itself here, I'm here referred to an application running on an emulator running on Windows running on hardware. Emulation is not a panacea.

You're already considering long-term hardware stability, and with an emulator you have to consider both underlying hardware and the underlying emulator and the operating system and the (other) operating system.

You will want to have a way to recover from a crash or corruption within the emulated OpenVMS environment, for instance.

As for Ingres itself, there are community editions of Ingres available for OpenVMS Alpha, as well as source code to the package. Visit Ingres.com for details here:

http://www.ingres.com/downloads/prod-comm-download.php

As for some reading material on related topics, start here:

http://64.223.189.234/node/6
http://64.223.189.234/node/70
http://64.223.189.234/node/226

I'd tend to acquire some spare parts, a replacement box with newer iron and a twin, or a hardware support service offering, if I was concerned about the long-term reliability of the platform. The AlphaServer 2000 (DemiSable) box is pretty old, and the integrity of its disks and of your current data archives -- you do have current and consistent archives, right? -- would probably be (to me) the most troubling part of the existing configuration. Less so the DemiSable hardware itself; the Sable boxes are pretty solid.

I might well start not with concerns over the Sable hardware, but with concerns over the status of the data itself, and of the application environment and source code. Of ensuring your current environment and configuration is tenable and recoverable. Or toward the ability to export your data and import it into another environment.

Stephen Hoffman
HoffmanLabs LLC

[Robert Gezelter]

Dale,

The cheapest and quickest solution in the situation described in your post is to purchase a suitable newer vintage Alphaserver from one of the reputable secondary suppliers.

Even a fairly low-end box by current standards is more horsepower than is currently in use. Migrating to the new configuration is also a fairly straightforward task.

And I do second Hoff's comments about nested environments. Charon is quite good, but it DOES require running a environment on top of another environment, which has its own peculiarities (e.g., error reporting).

In the situation that you describe, a later-vintage Alphaserver (or Alphastation) would likely be the best choice.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

[Willem Grooters]

Apart from getting newer Alpha hardware (a preferable solution) using a hardware emulator like Charon Alpha does have advantages: you can use what is usable on the underlying hardware. That includes SAN, and gigabit ethernet. Secondly, the emulated systems tend to be faster than the original - especially on IO.
Unless you have VERY specific code that highly relies on underlying hardware, not any change is needed.
If you take a Windows PC and put SCSI into it, chances are the only thing you need to do is shutdown your old server, hook the disk onto that SCSI and boot the emulator.
That's just it: a reboot (on different hardware), like you replace one Alpha with another.

If you want to move your data off the Alpha disks into SAN, you _could_ do with backup, but another approach is cluster the two systems and transfer the data that way.
Keep in mind that at this moment, there is only uni-processor support, but a multi-processor version seems to be in the pipeline. another thing you need to be aware of is that apart of the Charon license (a one-time cost) you'll need your VMS licences transferred.

One thing we learned from installations we did: reboot your current installation well in advance, to be sure the boot sequence is still in good shape. It will not be the first time that required system changes have not been included in the startup sequence.

[Dale Samson]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

I'm assuming Jan's comment:
>>>
How many Winedoze boxes have you encountered that have > 10 "years of unblemished service"?
<<<
was a little tongue-in-cheek. The answer, of course, is none. The word "robust" was used to compare a newer Windows box with the current hardware state of my Alphaserver. We bought the box in '97 (although according to the recent repair guy, it was build in '92), and I've been singing its praises for years.

Anyway, the consensus seems to be either an emulator, or sourcing a spare Alphaserver. The other points are all well-made. I thought I was fairly well covered, whereby I do an image of the system disk onto a spare disk whenever I make a significant change. I've also got a "standalone backup" setup (I know the term's not quite correct!) on two of my data disks. I do a full backup of all the data disks and my image of the system disk (on my spare disk) onto an externally-connected DLT tape drive each night, and the tape is taken off-site. I've got hardware and software maintenance in place. My main worry now is, in the event of some sort of unrecoverable hardware error, how can I get the data off of the tape, since this is the only Alphaserver in the company.

The two solutions are therefore both worth exploring. Thanks to all who contributed.

Best regards

Dale

[Stanley F Quayle]

> My main worry now is, in the event of some sort of unrecoverable hardware error, how can I get the data off of the tape, since this is the only Alphaserver in the company.

CHARON can drive SCSI-connected tape drives, as can AlphaServers with a SCSI interface.

Assuming that you have perfect backups, you could possibly delay deciding on which way to go. There's been more than one client who has called me and said, "I need a copy of CHARON RIGHT NOW!"

[Shameless Plug Alert (tm) -- I am a CHARON reseller.]

[Dale Samson]

Thanks to Stanley for the additional info....I'll keep it in mind!