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тАО03-24-2009 02:20 PM
тАО03-24-2009 02:20 PM
The UAF parameters are setup for min length, etc to ensure pwd rules are enforced but I still need to conduct a test to verify good pwd security.
I am looking for suggestions from others who have have processes in use to verify that user passwords are appropriately structured to ensure strong pwd security.
Solved! Go to Solution.
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тАО03-24-2009 04:03 PM
тАО03-24-2009 04:03 PM
SolutionThere are enough hooks in OpenVMS to allow you to insert your own, arbitrary policies to test for password strength.
Remember, by default VMS imposes length and basic substring checks for username and node name and checks against the password dictionary (which you are free to extend or replace - see SYS$SYSTEM:VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY.DATA), .
There are probably password scan/crack utilities around, but they tend to be extremely resource heavy, because the only feasible mechanism is brute force. I doubt anyone in this forum would make one available in response to a random query. There are security implications!
A much simpler mechanism would be to implement a password policy module to apply whatever policy your audit group require, then expire all users passwords. Next time they login, they will be forced to update their password to conform with the new policies.
If you search this forum for "VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY" you should be able to find a copy of an example program (I posted a MACRO32 example a while back).
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тАО03-24-2009 04:17 PM
тАО03-24-2009 04:17 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
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тАО03-24-2009 05:32 PM
тАО03-24-2009 05:32 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
The operating system is sensitive to login failures. Afterone failure, it begins to monitor the terminal, terminal serverconnection, or network connection where the login is taking place.At first, the operating system records unsuccessful logins in anintrusion database. As failures continue, the operating system not onlyrecords failures but takes restrictive measures. The person attemptinglogin is monitored more closely and limited to a certain numberof login retries within a limited period of time. Once a personexceeds either the retry or time limitation, he or she cannot login for a while, even with a valid user name and password. At a laterpoint, the restriction eases, and login is allowed once again.
You'll need to disable intrusion detection while any password scan is running. As far as running the scan, perhaps your auditors can provide a utility. Of course disabling intrusion detection may be an issue in later audits.
One low cost quick to deploy option may be to use a terminal emulation package with scripting support. Kermit comes to mind. There are consultants to found, some will be following up in this thread.
Andy
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тАО03-24-2009 06:25 PM
тАО03-24-2009 06:25 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Nah, leave it on! It is on right? Only fair.
I would explain the password rule already in place, and then have `them' explain how that is not good enough, and how they propose to test to their satisfaction. No handwaving. Have `them' be specific to their (perceived?) needs and then set out to honor those. Surely `they' are not going to just accpet a test you and I dream up no?
Make the requiremenents specific: interactive, network, oracle, attunity, MQ,..
I suspect more than 1/2 of the ( non-generated ) passwords in this world are weak, in the sense that they encorprate a predictable sequence based on the last password.
You tell me the number in the prior password, and I can predict the next password :-(. You can easily extend OpenVMS to protect against that, using the new-password intercept John referred to. Just take the new password, and try to validate it against the current password 2*N times where N is the number of characters provided. For eacht character try once try the value one lower, and once the value one lower. Watch in horror? No matter how 'strong' the password looks, if it is based on the prior, then it is weak.
Good luck!
Hein.
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тАО03-24-2009 06:48 PM
тАО03-24-2009 06:48 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
http://64.223.189.234/node/643
http://64.223.189.234/node/229
http://64.223.189.234/node/526
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тАО03-24-2009 06:58 PM
тАО03-24-2009 06:58 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
> What I need is the ability to "test" the
>control to prove to the audit group no
>weak pwd's exist
Given the set of "weak" passwords is near enough to infinite for practical purposes, "proving" no weak passwords exist is theoretically impossible. What is "their" criteria for such a test to succeed? Will they provide the set of weak passwords to test for? Why not just add them to the password dictionary?
You could perform a dictionary attack against a particular user, but from the outside (by default), you'd only get only five attempts before the system ignored you and locked itself down in intrusion mode. Then you have to wait an hour or two until the intrusion detection settled. Furthermore the login sequence is deliberately slow, so you're looking at geologic time frames to test each user!
From a privileged account you could avoid intrusion detection, and speed up your tests by running each test password through the password hash algorithm and comparing with the stored hash. This is potentially much faster, but remember it still needs to be done for each user, as the hashing algorithm has a "salt" value to make sure the same password doesn't hash to the same value for different users. You could speed things up a bit by removing all the words from the standard password dictionary from your test dictionary.
I think there was a utility that was supposed to do something like this a few years ago (was it "John the Ripper"?), but from memory it didn't work very well, and I doubt anyone else has been bothered to create one that works properly because it's rather pointless, except perhaps as an exercise in using system services.
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тАО03-24-2009 08:51 PM
тАО03-24-2009 08:51 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
$ mcr authorize modify joekid/pass=secret/nopwde
You can detect these changes with authorization auditing, but there are other ways that privileged users can modify passwords without the changed showing up in audit journal as an authorization event.
If you want to detect all password changes, you could take a periodic snapshot of the SYSUAF file and have a program compare the password and salt fields to see if they had changed, and then verify that there are audit records for the changed passwords.
If you want to find passwords, methods other than brute force guessing are probably easier. Social engineering, looking under people's keyboards, in their top shelf, on their calendar or sticky notes will probably yield more than a brute force scan of the SYSUAF file. If telnet or ftp is being used, WireShark or easily found password sniffing programs are the easiest way.
Procedures to attempt to guess passwords, in my opinion, do more to provide a false sense of security than to actually improve it.
If truly strong passwords are enforced, the likelihood of finding passwords written (in easily found locations) increases.
In summary, you can put great lock on a screen door, but it doesn't provide much real protection.
Just my opinion.
Jon
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тАО03-25-2009 12:59 AM
тАО03-25-2009 12:59 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
$ if f$search("sys$update:vms$chkpwd.exe") .nes. ""
$ then
$ mcr sys$update:vms$chkpwd 'pwd'
$ savestat = $status
$ if .not. savestat then goto again
$ endif
Jur.
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тАО03-25-2009 12:52 PM
тАО03-25-2009 12:52 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Jean-loup had executables for VAX and Alpha on his site, but you can also copy the SYSUAF.DAT to a Windows or Linux and run the program there.
If you try John the Ripper you will probably be very shocked at how quickly you find passwords.
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тАО03-25-2009 02:21 PM
тАО03-25-2009 02:21 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Based on my simple experiments I wouldn't trust it for anything serious:
$ mcr sys$update:vms$chkpwd password
%SYSTEM-E-PWDWEAK, password is too easy to guess; please choose another string
$ mcr sys$update:vms$chkpwd test
%SYSTEM-E-PWDWEAK, password is too easy to guess; please choose another string
$ mcr sys$update:vms$chkpwd secret
$ mcr sys$update:vms$chkpwd aaa
$ mcr sys$update:vms$chkpwd aa
$ mcr sys$update:vms$chkpwd a
It might be interesting if anyone with access to the sources can post exactly what this program does. From its size, and behaviour, I suspect not much!
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тАО03-25-2009 03:05 PM
тАО03-25-2009 03:05 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Hein
$ strings sys$update:vms$chkpwd
ELF
ALPHA
ALPHAVMS
BRATWURST
EVAX
EVMS
FIELDSERVICE
MANAGER
MANAGERS
SYSMANAGER
SYSMANAGERS
PANCAKES
PASSWORD
PRIMARY
SERVICE
SECONDARY
UETP
USER
VAXVMS
WILLIWAW
ZIRHUMBA
DEFAULT
DIGITAL
FIELD
PCSI
SPIA
SYSTEM
TEST
OPENVMS
SYSTEST
SYSTEST_CLIG
BACKUP
PASSWORD
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тАО03-25-2009 03:44 PM
тАО03-25-2009 03:44 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Has anyone actually done a comparison?
I just did a search of SYS$LIBRARY:VMS$PASSWORD_DICTIONARY.DATA;1 for "ABC123" and that isn't there, so I assume there are probably other "commonly used passwords" that aren't in the stock dictionary.
Jon
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тАО03-25-2009 05:03 PM
тАО03-25-2009 05:03 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
>
>Has anyone actually done a comparison?
Back when I first heard of John the Ripper I added all the words to the data file and I modified VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY to do some of the other checks that John did. It did not take me very long, a couple of hours at most. But the people I did the work for decided that the VMS systems were far enough behind the firewalls to not worry about. That company doesn't really exist anymore.
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тАО03-25-2009 06:24 PM
тАО03-25-2009 06:24 PM
Re: Weak Password Testing
http://64.223.189.234/node/1223
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тАО03-26-2009 06:00 AM
тАО03-26-2009 06:00 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
This might seem silly, but it's a common technique used by an attacker. The generic defensive dictionaries invariably miss the site-local terms and acronyms, which means that they're potentially in play as passwords.
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тАО04-03-2009 06:56 AM
тАО04-03-2009 06:56 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
First, I implemented a password policy module. It's not that hard - look at SYS$EXAMPLES for a couple of example modules named VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY. You have two entry points for functions that return a status code. A hash entry and a cleartext entry. Your inbound parameters are, for the hashed entry, a username by descriptor and a quadword-by-reference of the hash code. For the plaintext entry, two strings by descriptor of the username and actual input password. When you implement this, OpenVMS calls your entry points for each attempt to change a password. NOT for each use of an existing password. ONLY for changes of passwords.
You don't need to do anything for the policy_hash function entry point except return SS$_NORMAL as a status. I've yet to figure out why ANYONE would want to look at the hash code for anything. If the PURDY_S algorithm is in use, then any value of the hash is equally possible and equally valid - if you use PWD_MINIMUM as something other than zero.
For the policy_plaintext function entry, you only need to scan, categorize, and count character classes. For me, classes were uppercase, lowercase, digit, and punctuation characters. Define lower limits for each to whatever is the site policy, and then if the string doesn't meet criteria, return an error code of SS$_PWDWEAK (= %x0E7A if you want it as -E- severity.)
While I was working on this little jewel, I also checked for a minimum password age, which is another DOD requirement. You build a SYS$GETUAI call to include UAI$_PWD_DATE and UAI$_FLAGS. Get back those two values.
If the user has the PwdMix flag set, require the complexity as noted above. If not (which for me occurs as a public-key-only login case), you don't care about the passwords 'cause they never get used, so just return SS$_NORMAL and go away.
For the password date, which is a quadword, get the current time of day. For the high-order quad-time components only, subtract the password change date from the current time of day. Ignore the low-order date portion.
If the two dates differ in the high-order longword of the date-quad by less than 201 (decimal) then the password is less than about 24 hours old. (OK, if you do the math, the exact number is 23:58:48.84 old). Reject it because it is too young. I returned an error of SS$_PWDSYNTAX for this one rather than try to define my own system error code, but I made the module write a message to SYS$OUTPUT saying "password too young" so the user understood what was going on with that.
OK, using the standard password and other security thingies, I set the SYSGEN LGI stuff like this: LGI_PWD_TMO 30, _RETRY_LIM 3, _RETRY_TMO 20, BRK_LIM 3, _BRK_TMO 3600, HID_TIM 1800. My site also requires me to set LGI_BRK_DISUSER to 1, which I hate but cannot prevent.
Then for each user you set their minimum password size to at least two more characters than the sum of the minimum requirements for complexity. We have a requirement for 2 each of the four classes, so my min password is 10 - and if the user is privileged at all, we up that to 14. Max password age for my site is 60 days, per DoD requirements.
Here's a crazy thought, and it doesn't matter really, but if you implement password complexity, you don't need the password dictionary for those accounts - because I guarantee you that the passwords won't be in the dictionary. But password history still makes sense. I computed the numbers and set these system-wide logicals:
SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIFETIME = "305" and SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIMIT = "50" - which effectively prevents password churning, the technique whereby someone resets a password often enough to push old passwords out of the history list so he can reset his favorite password.
Now, the $64,000 question: How do you know that someone doesn't have a weak password right now? Answer: You cannot tell without more trouble than it is worth. The only thing you can see after-the-fact is the hashed password. You can get the hash quadword with a SYS$GETUAI function. You can then do repeated probes by calling function SYS$HASH_PASSWORD with the appropriate parameters for the given user, including their username, SALT value, the algorithm code, and the password you wanted to compare against the stored password hash.
I.e. You have a hash, you take your "weak" password and compute a hash for that user. Compare the hashes. If they match, the user MIGHT have a weak password. However, since the hash output by SYS$HASH_PASSWORD depends on three user-specific parameters, you have to repeat this probe once for each user for each "weak" password you wanted to test. That very quickly mounts up based on the size of the "weak" password list.
So here is how you assure that you have no weak passwords.
First, implement the password policy module, assert all users to have the PWDMIX flag and the minimum password size according to site policy.
The password policy module requires you do define the location of the module with a system-wide logical VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY = "{location/name of module}}" - by default, SYS$LIBRARY:VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY.EXE You also have to do something with SYSGEN at system startup - you use the ACTIVE parameters (NOT the CURRENT ones) and use SET LOAD_PWD_POLICY 1, then WRITE ACTIVE.
You must install the policy module, THEN define the system-level pointer, THEN update the SYSGEN parameter - in that order.
Next, send out a warning regarding password policy issues and immediately expire all user passwords.
Now, run a report after a few days showing those users who have updated their passwords since the policy module went into effect. Those folks DO NOT have weak passwords. Everyone else? Their passwords are expired. They won't log in until they reset their passwords - with the policy module in place.
Now, having done the above, you can honestly report to the big bosses that nobody has any weak passwords. Sound like a lot of work? Yep, you got it right. But it meets DoD specs in every way.
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тАО04-06-2009 03:55 AM
тАО04-06-2009 03:55 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Using your best "coach voice" tell the password, "OK, password, gimme 50," and see how many push ups it can do. You could also make the password do some chin ups as an extra level of testing for weakness.
:-)
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тАО04-06-2009 09:10 AM
тАО04-06-2009 09:10 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
If I were to support a password module for a customer, then I would add one more test:
Look for any number character in the NEW password, add one and try against the old password, also subtract one and try.
If any of those work as prior password, then return and error and send an Email reminder to go spank the user with a wet noodle or two. Clearly one-on-one education about the intent of the passwords requirements is required for such case.
fwiw,
Hein.
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тАО04-07-2009 09:02 AM
тАО04-07-2009 09:02 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
See
http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/password-size-does-matter-531
http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/win-money-and-books-cracking-my-windows-password-hashes-277
I suppose that complexity issues such as repeated characters, anagrams, company names, and history and such, are still helpful. But multiple requiring character sets seems counterproductive to me. They're too predictable and many users will use the "obvious" format of "Ulower#," for their passwords. I don't think it's very helpful to require this kind of complexity, esp. as it increases the odds that the password will be written down on a post-it note.
Stratus VOS has some interesting options that can be added to what has already been discussed here:
-forbid_vowels: yes/no
-forbid_repeating_chars: yes/no
-forbid_user_name: yes/no
-forbid_repeat_password: yes/no
-forbid_frequent_changes: yes/no
-num_hours_between_changes: 24
-forbid_passwords_in_table: yes/no
-forbid_reverse: yes/no
-forbid_anagram: yes/no
-req_alpha_numeric: yes/no
-forbid_begin_end_numeric: yes/no
(I've changed all the yes/no values to "yes/no".)
Thoughts? Comments?
AEF
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тАО04-07-2009 09:37 AM
тАО04-07-2009 09:37 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Passwords and password filters let an administrator blame the end-user for the inevitable exposures.
http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/57
http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/taxonomy/term/112
We know that one or more of our end-users (and occasionally even one of us) will eventually select a bad password, will set up a group-access account, or will expose a password via ftp or telnet, or will write it on a yellow sticky, or will have a laptop (or a server!) with a text file full of passwords (or worse) stolen.
So what are we going to do about it?
Address authentication for your environment (via PKE or token-based authentication or other such), and you'll have a better shot at the desired improvement to your server security. And you'll be less vulnerable to the inevitable password exposures.
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тАО04-07-2009 10:07 AM
тАО04-07-2009 10:07 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Let's say that you ALLOW but do not REQUIRE complex passwords.
OK, for users with "simple" passwords (i.e. PWDMIX flag is not set), you have 26 letters of the alphabet, 10 digits, and it happens that the underscore and dollarsign also work in that context. That's 28 characters.
For mixed passwords, you have 26 upper, 26 lower, 10 digits, and up to 32 punctuation marks, depending on what you allow.
If you have a rule that says 10 characters and any characters are fair game, then the non-mixed case is 28^10 = 6.278E+15. The mixed case is 94^10 = 5.386E+19, or almost 10,000 times as many possibilities.
Admittedly, when you make it a requirement instead of an option, some of those combinations aren't legal any more and the number of possible passwords goes down. At some point the math gets above me. But don't sell complex passwords short.
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тАО04-07-2009 11:08 AM
тАО04-07-2009 11:08 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
You've increased the number of possible characters by 94-38=56. Consider going from 10 to 15 character slots:
38**10 = 6278211847988224
38**15 = 497455170514937390661632
....:....1....:....2....:
38**10 = ~6.27E+15
38**15 = ~4.97E+23
38**5 = 79235168
....:....1....:....2....:
So by adding 5 character slots we gain a factor of 7.9E+7. This is approx. 1000 times more than the 10000 you get by implementing the requirement of complex passwords. And that requirement adds a whopping 56 characters to the character set. But users will never pick passwords such as
4#Rh&i0*h@
This rules out the vast majority of the 94^10=5.3E+19 possible passwords with the complex scheme you mentioned.
(And if you required such passwords, is there anyone who wouldn't have to write them down?)
For the case of ULLLLLL##P (almost certainly the most common variation) you get
26**7 * 100 * 32 = 25701792563200 =~ 2.6E+13
which is even less than 38**10. (!)
So it seems to me that the "pain" of 5 extra character slots is a lot less than the pain of multiple character sets and you get a lot more bang for the buck. Yes, you still have to filter out passwords like 1111111111, 0123456789, companyname, etc. But that's already being recommended by other posts and would be common to both complexity and length schemes. I, for one, would much rather have longer, case-insensitive letters plus numbers than shorter case-sensitive letters with numbers and punctuation marks. But that's just me.
Which passwords are you calling "illegal"?
Did you read the references I provided?
AEF
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тАО04-10-2009 09:36 AM
тАО04-10-2009 09:36 AM
Re: Weak Password Testing
Some combinations become illegal when you change from ALLOWED to REQUIRED complexity. Any combination that fails complexity then becomes illegal. My math is too rusty to handle that off-handedly.
If you don't want to use alternate characters then don't. Lengthen your passwords. Because I work at a Dept. of Defense site, I wasn't allowed that luxury of choosing alternatives.
Now, the pragmatist pops up within me. You and I BOTH know that what most users will do is choose passwords like JuliaSue-04/20/81 (girl friend's name and birthday) or Tea.4.2.Cha-Cha or something equally not so random. People don't think randomly anyway. To do this really RIGHT, you need to toss in complexity, long passwords, AND randomly generated passwords with a short lifetime. Then you guarantee that someone will write down the password somewhere.
So to a large degree, asking for more password complexity quickly reaches a point of diminishing (security) returns for your effort. It's always a balancing act - unless you work for people who are unbalanced to begin with. Of course, the latter comment should in NO way be construed to refer to my employer, the U.S.Government.
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тАО05-01-2009 10:28 AM
тАО05-01-2009 10:28 AM