A question on strategy

[Helge Asmus]

Hi there,

We are a SME company with most, if not all, of our staff on the road. Managing the company usually takes place in SOHO's scattered across the country. The staff needs instant 24/7 access to documentation, public and personal folders, and sometimes DB's on the company server. The admin is often on the road, too.

We have a very stable network connection, that's not a problem. The w2k3 server has a raid array, which is predicted to run out of space by end of this year. AD and DB services cause a heavy load on the server, even though it is a fast 4-core system with enough RAM. We already had problems with the storage, IDE as well as SATA disks had failed and they were replaced as soon as someone with a screwdriver was within reach.

We want to improve on the situation by adding an external redundant cca. 1000GB storage system to the network capable of storing and restoring an image of the server and the 4 most important PC's as well as providing space for documentation and project backups.

Now we thought about these options:
1. revive an old 19" PC, add a RAID controller and 4 hot-swap SATA or IDE drives as FTP server
2. Get a low-cost RAID NAS system with ATA drives
3. Get a used DL370 ... DL580 and a bunch of SCSI drives to provide for Backup, storage, and aux DC service.

The system is a fallback option only to keep the company going. Most of the time, there is someone around who could go and hot-swap a failed drive, but not much more.

What would you suggest as a reliable low-cost solution?

Points for good ideas!
Thanks, Helge.

[Rita C Workman]

..tough questions all..

I don't know what your business is, but having your data on solid technology available is obviously critical. You mention disk alot..

I'm going step away from the server portion, as it sounds Windows based (not my preference) and just comment on disk.

I might look to spending money on the storage environment. Note the wording 'storage environment'. That may sound like alot of money - but how much do you loose when cheap JBOD's die ? How much to keep replacing them; how much in man hours? I'd move away from cheap scsi disk, as in the end you'll spend more replacing disk and rebuilding data than it's worth. I'd invest in a good storage array. If you have mutilple servers to get to the data then look at building a SAN. A very small one to start, small department switches (might even get them used..) but then your disk could be shared by any platform/server. Get a storage array, start small but one that will allow for some expansion, and better performance. You can go RAID 5 or if your really willing move up then mirror the disk. The two I've always found quite reliable are Hitachi disks so look at HP storage or EMC (my favorite) storage.
It may be well worth the investment. And these vendors offer some great support in many ways.

Only issue might be a technology you don't have staff to cover - but there are plenty of folks in the industry who might be interested in a small support assignment, especially if they could handle the tasks remotely. Like you - they are rarely in "the office" either.

Just my thoughts,
Kindest regards,
Rita

[Glenn S. Davidson]

I think the server is the least of your worries. You can get second hand servers pretty easy. Since servers tend to get outdated regularly this means that you will always have the opportunity to upgrade/replace it. There are plenty of second hand or refurbished hardware around to fix that problem.

As far as storage? Research, research, research! Talk to people about their stuff. Ask who they think their competitors are. There are lots of array manufacturers out there that you may not find any other way. I did this a while back and ran across a small company called Baydel. They had a great little unit that ended up smoking all the others. They even sent us a unit to test with.

If your plan is to eventually get into a SAN then buy arrays that can function in that environment. Just because you are using them as direct attached today doesn't mean you will always be using them this way. Some companies will also trade out your old stuff (typically very cheaply) but getting something is better than nothing.

[Helge Asmus]

Thank you very much for your ideas.

The old PC & ATA disks option is dead, definitely. I'm happy with that.

Remaining are the options of using a dedicated storage system or a refurbished server.

Rita, we DO use a windows server, including all the interesting ways to block access to files in exactly the wrong moment. And we're stuck with it until it's written off. That is why I thought about the 'old 370' option for providing a backup with limited functionality and/or speed.

Glenn, as I understand, if we use an off-the-shelf system for a mirrored 1TB, that would spread onto 4 x 500GB SCSI or SAS drives. Are drives of that size already reliable enough? Or is it better to look for an alternative with, like, 12 x 170GB, for example?

Sales people tend to tell you that only their system never fails and is the easiest to maintain, but they obviously can't have the experience in the field.

We've been offered a stand-alone system with 4 x 500GB ATA drives. Only I don't FEEL safe with it before I hear this is being successfully used in an enterprise-critical environment.

Thanks again, Helge.

[Rita C Workman]

Helge,

When words like "enterprise and critical" are involved, then I tend to look at vendors who are experienced with selling and more importantly supporting critical, enterprise, and let interject - highly available systems.
In my experience the Windows platform has never been able to meet that criteria.
We have a tremendous amount of talent here, but getting the clustered environment to work and getting it back up in the event of a disaster - "is a nightmare".
But for now, as you say, your stuck with that platform. And please do not misunderstand me, there are some things that run well on Windows. So for front end applications or email - I say fine.
For our large databases - no.

Your on Windows right now, so the best thing you can do is rethink and address your storage. If you want the premier for storage than have your disk environment mirrored. We have NAS here. So far we have off sourced the high end usage of it to our more robust larger disk storage arrays. The NAS couldn't handle the load.
I recommend you consider fiber attached storage. You could, but don't have to, consider a SAN. You can directly attach a storage array to your hosts (yes even Windows servers) by installing a fiber (HBA) card. Recommend you put two cards for redundancy if the host has available slots.
Build yourself a solid disk environment. Not just some JBODs attached. With a good storage environment you position your data to grow, and your environment to grow with it.
HP Storage and EMC (what we use) are among the best. I am NOT an IBM storage fan. Although I hear they have gotten better.

Do you see the picture I am trying to paint for you. To illustrate: One who wants to be an artist must stop using crayons and start using a brush and oils.

If you want your business to grow and your data to be reliably there - then build a solid place for your data. Stop thinking of disk as just some peripheral you add on to a PC. [ And the offer - just alot more of the same stuff similar to what you have...]

OK...off my soap box - Hope I have given you something to think about. And remember, just because you talk to a vendor does not mean you have to buy their product. But I suggest you look at the better disk....

I'll try and check back in a couple days.

Rgrds,
Rita

[Rita C Workman · Accepted solution]

Helge,

I re-read my response and wanted to say....you know your environment and know best it's needs than someone like myself commenting with no figures/stats out here. So a NAS may a good fit for you.

But even for a NAS - get something good with good vendor support.

Rgrds again,
Rita