CDE and xterm

[Shivkumar]

Dear Sirs/Madam,

I am thinking which is good method to connect to remote unix hpux servers. Currently i use xterm of Reflection X software from window xp desktop.

I heard once that CDE should not be used to connect to remote server as it is very resource intensive.

However, i don't feel so. CDE's feature of using various colors and fonts pleases our minds to be more productive.

I would like to know opinions of unix gurus of this forum :-))

Thanks,
Shiv

[Bill Hassell · Accepted solution]

If you use CDE then your WinXP desktop disappears. CDE is a desktop manager, just like WinXP. Remember that CDE is not running on your PC, you are running CDE on one of your servers and the xterm windows you are running also run on that same server.

Now on a fast server and a fast network, CDE is fine...unless you want to connect to many different servers at the same time. Now the pain starts. With CDE, it is quite difficult to create different colored xterm windows. There are several ways but they all involve extra knowledge about Xwindows resources and how to associate each window with a different server. Most people give up and all windows end up the same color.

Similarly, the fonts in xterm (and dtterm, hpterm) are not scalable. So when you resize these terminal windows, the character space changes (lines and columns) but the size of the font stays the same. Yes, you can specify a different font but it will be a painful adventure into Xwindow font specifications.

So the pretty colors are nice but managing several servers at the same time will tend to be much less satisfying than you would think.

Now since you have Reflection/X, you have a much better solution already available. In the Reflection/X program set, you'll see a program called Reflection for Unix. Unlike CDE, this program does not require Xwindows at all and runs on your PC desktop. Essentially, this is a terminal emulator like Hyperterminal but with major features that make managing multiple systems extremely easy.

With Reflection for Unix hosts, you can not only change the color background and foreground but you can (in less than 20 seconds) create an automated login for a specific server. By saving the settings file under a different name for each server, you can login to 10 different server with 10 different screen colors in less than 10 seconds.

The Refection for Unix program also uses scalable fonts so you can instantly resize the screen larger or smaller while keeping the same rows and columns (important for some menu-oriented programs). You can also change the rows and/or columns to other values.

So I am a fan of telnet/ssh connections from a PC-based program like Reflection for HP or Reflection for Unix. I do run Reflection/X but only for the GlancePlus program call gpm, and when forced to with newer Oracle tools. Otherwise, I agree that lots of colors and ease of use are important for server managament...CDE just doesn't work that well.

[Devender Khatana]

Shiv,

If you have multiple servers and connect to multiple at a time then CDE is not the best option. Even if you are required to do so use CDE to login into one then rlogin /ssh to login to other server. Even if there also you intend to use GUI then you can export DISPLAY there. Obviously use the idle server or less utilized for logging in.

Still for major monitoring and configuring functions which do not require GUI, reflection for HP/Unix or any other terminal emulator is a better option.

HTH,
Devender

[Mahesh Kumar Malik]

Hi Shiv

CDE is not resource hungry. It runs on hp-ux and not on XP. In fact this Terminal Emulator has flexibility in terms of opening multiple Terminal Screens in one Desktop and thus managing the system easily. Also installation of applications using CDE is very easy, since multiple screens on same desktop provide detailed progress of installation.

As mentioned by you, CDE profile can be customised in terms of various fonts and colors depending on user's choice.

Regards
Mahesh

[Bill Hassell]

CDE doe4sn't use a lot of CPU or disk except when it first starts, and yes, it runs on the server you choose. It is a big program but since it is mostly idle, the server load isn't of much concern. The primary resource used by Xwindows (including CDE) is the network. All those colors and window displays require a lot of transactions on the network. On a local, switched 100Mbit LAN, you won't notice any effect, but change to a dialin line at 22Kbaud or a high speed WAN, and performance is really, really slow due to to the megs of data needed when starting CDE and changing window sizes or positions.

In Xwindows, every decoration on the screen (decoration = character on screen, top shadow color, bottom shadow color, background, foreground, cursor shape and color, scroll bar elements, and so on) all require negotiation and transmission to your PC. Simply resizing a window like xterm requires thousands of messages to be generated as the Xwindow code is told about resizing, then negotiates with the PC as to whether the next larger window size will even fit on the screen. Same thing occurs when moving an Xwindow object like xterm. You'll see this very dramatically on a modem, but also on a WAN where very short queries and responses run exceedingly slow due to the turn-around time of the network. A WAN may have a link speed of 1.544 Mbit (T1) but network turnaround time can be dozens of milliseconds.

So for local network usage, Xwindows is probably OK, but be prepared for big performance delays with modems and WANs.

Yes, you can start lots of terminal sessions with CDE but unless you do a lot of customization, all of the windows will be the same color and setting up an automatic login is both cumbersome and unsecure.

[Ranjith_5]

Hi Shiva,

You can use exceed software to get X display from a windfows workstation. You can get CDE in this. After installing exceed you can configure it as follows.

1. Tools--> configuration-->communication-->select XDMCP query-->click on configure..>enter the IP of the HP Server-->click OK.
2. Tools--> configuration-->window mode-->select single and click OK.

You will get the CDE of the Server now.

If you select Tools--> configuration-->communication-->select XDMCP brodcast you can get all the HP-UX servers in the net work of your windows workstation.

Regards,
Syam

[Raghavendra_12]

Hi Shiv,

There is another application by name CYGWIN which is similar to EXCEED. EXCEED needs a licence. However, CYGWIN can be freely dowloaded and installed.

You can use CYGWIN to connect to any remote servers. You will find all the information about the installation and use at the following location : http://www.cygwin.com/

Regards,
Raghav

[Alessandro Pilati]

Hi Shiv,
I can tell you about my experience with Exceed.
I worked on a multinode Ibm SP computer environment and usualy I needed to have 16 xterm windows opened ( 2 for each node of SP ) plus other graphical monitoring tools for system and the DB2.
I didn't see great performances lowerings in my activity, and instead I had an optimal control of all the system having, with CDE, the possibility of open xterms in any moment and for any node of the SP.
I can invite you to use Exceed, the only problem I think could be that is a not free product.
So the indication of Raghav could be better for you, infact Cygwin is free, but I don't know it enough to say if it's better than Exceed.
Here you can consult some links about exceed to have a more secure idea on what to get for your needs:

http://www.pse-com.com/DownloadCenter/4_28/exceed_datasheet_EN.pdf

http://www.hummingbird.com/products/nc/exceed/index.html?cks=y

http://www.uic.edu/depts/accc/software/exceed/contents.html

http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/windows/exceed/index.xml?style=text

Regards,
Alex

[Rajesh SB]

Hi Shiv,

Remote login/telnet clients are depends on system administrator interest.
It is better to avoid use of CDE in case of that server is heavily loaded/production, unless needful.

I preferably use thin client "PuTTY" for non GUI activities. This can be find at

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html

It provides telnet/rlogin/ssh.


Using X-Client Reflection-X/XManager for compfort use prefer to use hpterm.

Regards,
Rajesh