HP Aries Emulation Migration of C, Sybase 11.9 and SQR 3.0 running at PA-RISC servers

[Gd2]

I have old set of C applications which runs on HP-UX 11.0 (9000/800/L3000-8x). These apps use Sybase 11.9 and SQR 3.0 (its ancient).

We are considering moving to HP Itanium. One of the approaches was to re-compile the C code , Sybase libs and SQR libs at HP itanium. But this wont work because the version of SQR - 3.0 is ancient and wont recompile at HP Itanium. Same might apply for Sybase 11.9 too ( We use "cpre" sybase command to generate isql files).

So the logical next step is to emulate C apps, SQR and SYbase at HP Itanium through HP Aries. I have some doubts -

1) Can I compile my code in PA-RISC mode at HP Itanium so that generated binaries would be PA_RISC compatible (can run via Aries) instead of native Itanium binaries? The reason being in future after PA-RISC servers are decomissioned, any changes could be accomodated at Itanium.

2) Can the existing PA-RISC binaries - C, SQR 3.0 and Sybase 11.9 run properly at HP Aries?

3) How would I know if Aries is installed at HP ITanium?

Please help.

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi:

1) As far as I know there is no way to create PA-RISC code on an Itanium architecture.

2) Yes, existing PA-RISC binaries, that are not kernel intrusive will run just fine under Aries. The performance you achieve may be a bit less so you are always advised to benchmark, Your mileage may vary. See the 'ARIES(5)' manpages for some very good details.

3) Aries is intrinsically part of the Itanium. There is nothing to add nor nothing to do.

Aside from the ARIES(5) manpages,[also available on the web at:

http://bizsupport.austin.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c02255323/c02255323.pdf

...more details can be found at the "Knowledge-on-Demand" subsite -- click the "+" icon just above the topic you want here:

http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/w1/en/os/hpux11i-kod-overview.html

Regards!

...JRF...

[Gd2]

Thanks for you inputs JRF. Its really helpful as usual.

It seems that PA-RISC Aries emulation is an stop gap solution then ? In my case, since I cannot recompile and transition my old code to Itanium, the only way out is probably a re-write of the applications?

From your response I can infer that I cannot create PA-RISC compatible binaries at HP ITanium by any means. So even if I were to successfully port my application binaries at Itanium through Aries, I may not be able to make future code changes and run in aries ( since PA-RISC box would be decommissioned).

Is there any other way other than rewriting my code and run it at Itanium and maintain the application ?

Please help.

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi:

With regard to your first question, it appears that my first answer was wrong. See:

http://www.hp.com/go/xpade

Regards!

...JRF...

[Gd2]

Thanks JRF ! Some hope now.

I went through the documentation of XPADE. Can you please confirm my following understanding?

1) Aries can only run PA-RISC binaries. It cannot be used to compile PA-RISC code.

2) To port PA-RISC Code - The approach would be to compile and link the code via XPADE into PA-RISC binaries and then run the binaries via Aries. is that correct?

3) Does XPADE support code running on HP-UX 11.0 at HP 9000 server?

Please advise

[Emil Velez]

hp 9000 containers can compile code using a backup of a PA system and create PA executibles.

[Dennis Handly]

>1) Aries can only run PA-RISC binaries. It cannot be used to compile PA-RISC code.

It can run the PA compilers.

>2) To port PA-RISC code - The approach would be to compile and link the code via XPADE into PA-RISC binaries and then run the binaries via Aries. is that correct?

Yes.

>3) Does XPADE support code running on HP-UX 11.00?

Only if the code just happens to work for 11.11, which is very likely if the code isn't kernel intrusive.

>JRF: 3) There is nothing to add nor nothing to do.

You may need newer Aries patches.

[Rajesh K Chaurasia]

As suggested XPADE can be used to develop PA-RISC applications on Integrity. If your code is strictly C/C++ XPADE would be best fit.

http://www.hp.com/go/xpade

XPADE built software is not supported for deployment back on PA-RISC (technically it may work though) and must be used on Integrity under ARIES.

In case, XPADE does not provide all the components needed to for your development environment, consider using HP 9000 Containers

http://www.hp.com/go/hp9000-containers

With container based approach you can replicate the PA-RISC installed system image inside on Integrity server to be used as virtual root file system by containers. You can build, test, deploy PA-RISC software with HP 9000 Containers.

Regards
-Rajesh

[Gd2]

Thanks Dennis and Rajesh. You have been very helpful.

Some open questions -


1) Regardless I use HP 9000 Containers or XPADE, the code needs to be Aries compliant right ?

2) Are HP 9000 containers or XPADE licensed?

3) My code runs on HP-UX 11.0 , So running it on XPade or HP 9000 containers, I need to first move it to 11.11 version , test and make it 11.11 complaint. If and only if this steps works, I can be hopeful that it would work on Itanium. Is that correct?

4) Please pardon my limited understanding, but moving from 11.00 to 11.11 - is this a OS upgrade? How complex is it ?

It would be kind of you if could reply back with some answers. Eagerly waiting for it

Thanks,

GD2

[Dennis Handly · Accepted solution]

>1) Regardless I use HP 9000 Containers or XPADE, the code needs to be Aries compliant right?

Yes.

>2) Are HP 9000 containers or XPADE licensed?

Not sure about the former. I think the XPADE assumes you have a compiler license for your PA box.

3) My code runs on 11.00, So running it on XPade or HP 9000 containers, I need to first move it to 11.11 version, test and make it 11.11 complaint.

I wouldn't bother going to the 11.11 intermediate step, just try it on Integrity.

>4) but moving from 11.00 to 11.11 - is this a OS upgrade? How complex is it?

Yes, it's an upgrade or cold install. Not sure, it's been a decade.
The source changes should be very minor and at one time there was an "I guarantee it" program saying applications would just work.

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi (again):

> 1) Regardless I use HP 9000 Containers or XPADE, the code needs to be Aries compliant right ?

"Compliant" is addressed in the ARIES(5) manpages (cited above) under the section titled "ARIES LIMITATIONS".

4) Please pardon my limited understanding, but moving from 11.00 to 11.11 - is this a OS upgrade? How complex is it ?

This can be very straightforward. I, and others, would recommend a cold-install of 11.11. The installation guide for the 11.11 release has the details. Since you have an L-class, support on 11.11 exists.

Regards!

...JRF...

[Rajesh K Chaurasia]

> 1) Regardless I use HP 9000 Containers or XPADE, the code needs to be Aries compliant right?

Well behaved PA-RISC user space code is generally ARIES compliant subject to ARIES limitation referenced by JRF earlier.

> 2) Are HP 9000 containers or XPADE licensed?

HP 9000 Containers is available free of charge but pay attention to RTU/LTU requirements of OE and support implications.

http://h21007.www2.hp.com/portal/site/dspp/menuitem.863c3e4cbcdc3f3515b49c108973a801/?ciid=8c873e797d6ab210VgnVCM200000a460ea10RCRD

HP XPADE is covered under the support contract for your HP C/aC++ Developer's Bundle.

http://h21007.www2.hp.com/portal/site/dspp/menuitem.863c3e4cbcdc3f3515b49c108973a801/?ciid=247b8b7e14fae110VgnVCM200000a460ea10RCRD

> 3) My code runs on HP-UX 11.0 , So running it on XPade or HP 9000 containers, I need to first move it to 11.11 version , test and make it 11.11 complaint. If and only if this steps works, I can be hopeful that it would work on Itanium. Is that correct?

As Dennis and JRF suggested, directly move HP-UX 11.0 applications to Integrity, most likely it would work. Please note that minimum supported HP-UX version for HP 9000 Containers is HP-UX 11.11, earlier versions may work but definitely not supported.

Regards
-Rajesh

[Gd2]

JRF , Dennis , Rajesh - Thank you very much for your response. You have been a great help.

I would be starting the migration of the code. If any doubts arise, I would surely let u know .


Thanks !

[Gd2]

One final question please :(


Which one should I choose between - XPADE or HP 9000 Containers ? They seem to loosely do the same thing i.e offer an environment so that PA-RISC code could be compiled using PA-RISC eco system and running the code via ARIES.


I also read this -

XPADE - No support for HP-UX 9.x, 10.x, 11.00 and 11.11 object files, libraries and executables.

So, Should Hp 9000 containers is the way to go?

[Rajesh K Chaurasia]

Please evaluate your build environment dependencies and compare them with list of components/tools available as part of XPADE.

XPADE is not a complete replacement for PA-RISC build environment. It's primary usage is for install time and runtime compilation/re-linking requirements of certain applications. That said, XPADE has been used mostly for C/C++ build environment consolidation on Integrity. If you are using Fortran, Cobol, gcc or anything other than HP C/ACC, XPADE is not for you.

If XPADE does not provide one or more of your build environment dependencies, consider using HP 9000 Containers.

Regards
-Rajesh

[Gd2]

Thanks Rajesh.

I am not overly worried about the C code. My main worry is the

1) migration of Sybase 11.9 binaries ( As per plan need to upgrade to 15). I am not sure existing binaries would work at XPADE.

2)) migration of SQR 3.0 reports. These are ancient version.

Based on the above reasons , I think recompilation into native Itanium wont work.I guess due to the same reasons XPADe wont support it too.

Probably HP 9000 containers are way to go for me. Any suggestions would be welcome.

[Rajesh K Chaurasia]

Best way to get started with HP 9000 Containers is through the administrator's guide which provides step by step help on creation, configuration and setup of SRP/containers using PA-RISC installed system image.

http://h21007.www2.hp.com/portal/download/files/prot/files/hp9000/HP9000_Containers_Admin_Guide.pdf

Please approach your HP account manager or support contact if you need assistance with HP 9000 Containers PoC.

Regards
-Rajesh

[Gd2]

Thanks Rajesh.

I have been to doing some reading about HP 9000 Containers. It seems to be a great approach. I understand it clones/virtualizes the eco system of PA-RISC envrionment at Itegrity and stores it through isolated secured clusters and operates via Aries. So far so good.

But the burning question I have is -

Can HP 9000 container at Integrity offer me an environment so that I can recompile my old code (using PA-RISC artifacts) , link it and build the binaries inside the containers ?


I have no reference of this information at the documentation . Can some please help me ?

Thanks,
Gd2

[Dennis Handly]

>Can HP 9000 container on Integrity offer me an environment so that I can recompile my old code (using PA-RISC artifacts), link it and build the binaries inside the containers?

Provided your original PA system had all the tools you needed. And you have the appropriate licenses and support contracts.

[Rajesh K Chaurasia]

You can think of HP 9000 Container instance as equivalent of a VM without the kernel and non-availability of kernel mode applications. Since the containers are built using installed system image from PA-RISC, you can continue to enjoy ability to build, debug PA-RISC applications as on PA-RISC. Of course, as Dennis suggested your PA-RISC system must have compiler and tools installed and you should have valid license.

If you visit HP 9000 Containers web-site (http://www.hp.com/go/hp9000-containers) the published customer success story actually refers to transitioning of legacy build environment to HP Integrity using HP 9000 containers.

Regards
-Rajesh

[Gd2]

Thanks so much Rajesh and Dennis. This forum has been invaluable to me.

I have the compiler and tools at PA systems. So I believe I can create a image of this system , restore it at Itegrity and compile at will and run through Aries.

1) How ever my code is running at 11.00 where as the HP Containers are vouched safe for tranisionting software from 11.11 version onwards. So should I first migrate it to 11.11 and if that works I can go in for HP 9000 COntainers?

2) It seems HP 9000 Containers is available free of charge. Is there something I missed on the licensing?

Please advise.

[Rajesh K Chaurasia]

> 1) How ever my code is running at 11.00 where as the HP Containers are vouched safe for tranisionting software from 11.11 version onwards. So should I first migrate it to 11.11 and if that works I can go in for HP 9000 COntainers?

It would be better if you transition your environment to HP-UX 11.11 first and then proceed with containers based transition. This would provide you supported configuration.

However, you could build container from HP-UX 11.0 image and it may work well enough but it won't be supported. Some customers have been successful with deploying containers with HP-UX 10.20/11.0.

> 2) It seems HP 9000 Containers is available free of charge. Is there something I missed on the licensing?

Probably you missed going through the link below in one of the previous replies.
http://h21007.www2.hp.com/portal/site/dspp/menuitem.863c3e4cbcdc3f3515b49c108973a801/?ciid=8c873e797d6ab210VgnVCM200000a460ea10RCRD

Regards
-Rajesh