if someone takes the time to help you please assign them points

[Richard Darling]

I have noticed that alot of people are not assigning points to people who take the time to help them out.

If someone helps you take the time to give them points...especially if you would like to receive help with future problems...
RD

[Patrick Wallek]

I agree with you Richard. It is somewhat frustrating to post something, and then not get any points, or any idea that the post did or did not help.

What would help, I think, is a more user friendly point assignment system. The way it works right now is somewhat cumbersome and time consuming, what with a person only being able to assign point to one response at a time, then getting the message thanking you for assigning points, then going back to the thread and going to the next response.

What would be nice is to be able assign points to any number of responses to a question at once, then click on an 'APPLY' button or something and have all the points assigned at once. It would also be nice to be able to change the # of points that you assign to a response.

I don't know that the above would solve the problem, but it might help.

[Richard Darling]

that is a good suggestion...

[paul courry]

I think you need to put it right in peoples faces multiple times along with the warning that people who don't award points don't get answers. Some of the forums are attrocious!

While many of us answer questions because our hearts are pure and we have been awarded sainthood some do it for points and bragging rights. (You may guess what catagory I am in, I'll never tell) With out the regular awarding of points this tree will wither.

[Richard Darling]

paul, you really do find your way into every corner of the forum!!!

[Paula J Frazer-Campbell]

Hi to all

The points assignment problem once again raises its ugly head.

I think that the problem is two fold:-

1. The user can get their answers without logging in.
2. The new question posers are not fully aware of the points system.

If you are new to the forum and reading this then please log in and assign points to people who have assisted you.

Why? you may ask, well future forum users will not know which answer provided the best solution to the problem and also if someone takes the time and effort to answer a question or point you in the right direction to resolve your problem then the courteous thing is to acknowledge their effort.


Paula

[paul courry]

I am a smurf and I'm painted HP forum blue.......

[RikTytgat]

Hi all,

I absolutely agree.

There seems to be a big difference in the rate of answers with assigned points between different forums.

I, for one, have been focusing on the IT/Operations forum, and despite my frequent presence on that forum, my points hardly increases, as opposed to the hp-ux forum, where points are rewarded more frequently.

Of course, it is not only about the points. But if we take the time answering questions and helping people saving a great deal of time, why don't they take the time rewarding us for it.

Maybe it is true that (new) users have to be made aware of the possibility to award points.

Bye,
Rik.

[Tim Malnati]

This subject just keeps coming up. I have to agree that no acknowledgement is not a positive inspiration at all. It's a somewhat complex situation though...

Problem one - logging into the system. For those of you that are not aware of it, when you log into the ITRC you are opening some significant power in the areas other than the Forums. There is no question that HP needs to be careful about this. Most of the delay seems to be associated with the system calculating what access capabliities you have based on your support contract matrix, but the more system handles is needs to figure out, the longer the delay. The delay involved makes it a definite turn off. HP has improved it with longer cookie expiration, but it's not the answer. In my opinion, HP should probably adopt a two tier login system. One cookie that simply identifies who you are and that your are not locked out for some reason; this could be associated with all parts of the ITRC that don't require additional support contract stuff and should be quick to process. The other cookie associates the more sensitive areas and goes through the full login sequence. By doing something like this, HP could easily force the login with any access to the Forums without any long delays and much less processing on the login server.

The next issue is the ability of the user to get back to their original post. If you opt to receive an email it's a simple matter by clicking on the link. If you try to locate the message by any other means you can be in a world of hurt; particularly if a couple of days has gone by on a busy Forum area. When I look at my stats I see that I've awarded points to 60 of 62 responses. But good luck attempting to find the two that I've missed. The pathetic search engine is a part of it (I'll discuss it more later on). I have also suggested to the powers that be a more informative way of displaying what you already have out there that has yet to be awarded. A screen that comes up listing anything open at login time and accessable any time... A much more lengthy list of posting threads you've participated in (5 items is far from enough), etc.

The search engine without a clue... First, it takes forever and a day just to display the search selection screen. Then when you attempt to locate something the system seems to give you back a somewhat random list of what it has found. Do a search on your last name and you will see what I'm talking about. It's limited to the first 50 items found and it does not appear to have the capability to hold a list and further search within it. I right click on links and display them in another window to speed up things and not have to deal with additional delays repainting previous screens (the new system re-downloads every object). Now try to right click on the search link and attempt to bring it up in a new window - good luck!

So now you add in all the processing delays, SSI errors, 404 not found messages, item contained no data errors, menuing problems and all the other quirks that the new 'improved' Forum site has to offer and there is little wonder that users (particularly new ones) are less than inclined to award points. But I have to mention somewhat of a class distiction that seems to be going on also. The Forum areas that are more pc and printer related are rediculous when it comes to the lack of point awards. A good example of this is Jamie Hughes in the Microsoft Forums; she pours her heart and soul into it, yet can't seem to get past a green hat. Her particiapation is much more in line with what I'm wearing (probably more).

[Dan Hetzel]

Hi Richard,

I fully agree with all that has been said about points assignment but it looks like some of the forum users don't think the same.

In a recent post, I brought to the attention of a forum newbie that points should be assigned if the answers proved useful, quoting an HP document.
One of the forum users replied with : "any problem again with points, Dan?".

Here is the link:
http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,1150,0x1ac479bffde7d4118fef0090279cd0f9,00.html

I've been living without a 'crown' for close to half a century and sincerely believe that I could still live without for a while, but, like most active members of the forum, I perceive getting a new hat as a real reward.
Anyway, it's the rule of the game so let's play it that way.

All the best,

Dan

[Patrick Wallek]

I'll bring up another pet peeve of mine.

There are some users that will award points to only 1 response out of maybe 6 or more responses to their question. When this happens the 1 response that gets points usually gets 10 points (for magic answer), but it makes it look like all the other people that helped out don't exist.

The scale of 1-10 exists for a reason and all responses should get some sort of point award, at least up to the point that the problem has been solved.

There are definitely improvements that could be made to the Forums. I personally think that more work needs to be put into some of the usability features of the forums, ie. point assignment made easier, better search engine, etc., etc.., now that the new look-and-feel has been around for a while and is starting to get a bit more stable.

[Carlos Fernandez Riera]

Dan, was me!, and you know it was a joke now.
;-D
I think:

If i had posted a request and i had made efforts to read it, i have to effort to asign points.

Forumers, newbes too, must know there are lots of people expending their time and knowledge replying for FREE, and giving thanks is FREE too.

My idea is let's go to keep this thread on first page and on 'Top Reads' section.

Everybody will know is not absolute free, the rule, as said Dan, is giving thanks assingning any point.

Regards.

[Rodney Hills]

Maybe would could have HP modify the ITRC forum so that it displays the percentage a user has assigned points to responses. This could be displayed underneath the Author name.

That way if a users see's their question on the forum and notices that their percentage is low, they might realize they may not get a response back as soon as they like.

-- Rod H

[Alex Glennie]

I tend to agree , the points system to work as expected would need intervention from the forums development team, but bear in mind not everyone has time to always adhere to the rules.

But on another note ......

Does anyone think the bigger the hat the more likely the response will be assigned points ?

A possible solution => ?

Ammend the current points system slightly to encourage more "forum newbies" to actively participate and answer questions by simply having a monthly total or similar that clears itself at the end of the limitted time frame.

Disadvantage => More long term hat wearers will not always have their names in lights ....

[Dan Hetzel · Accepted solution]

Hi,

Maybe that preventing users to post anything once they have reached a given number/percentage of 'pointless answers' could help enforcing the points assignment?

Just a thought...

Dan

[Victor BERRIDGE]

Hi,
Its true that with the little feed back I got these couple of weeks, I reduced my postings...

IMHO, It is a problem when you have no feed back at all, since you dont know if you have been of some help, and its filling the forum DB with non validated information...

All the best
Victor

[Edward Sedgemore]

The only option I feel is to force users to assign points, or else punish them. Its human weakness, were natually lazy. If we dont need to do it then we wont. Thats why we have laws and the police!

I think either close down someones account if they continually dont assign points - thus forcing them the hassle of reopening a new account or some very experienced administrator from HP should assign points for them.

[Paula J Frazer-Campbell]

Good morning to all

Lets us get this points thing into perspective.

Yes it is nice to get points for our efforts, but to behead / castrate / bar / reset / not answer ---- is taking things way to far.

The forum works in its prime role to assist and impart knowledge and yes one or two things need to be slicker / easier, but to suggest punitive action against non-point assigning forum users is not on.

Unix Sysadmins are members of a unique community where knowledge is freely shared and should continue to be so.


IMHO

Paula

[RikTytgat]

Hi,

Paula, I fully agree. Punitive action is going too far.

Indeed, knowledge should be freely shared, but appreciation doesn't cost that much either.

Bye,
Rik.

[Maureen Gunkel]

I agree. I know this is kind of petty, but a lot of times I'll click on the person posting to get an idea of how they assign points. Not just to get points, But as a lot of have mentioned, you don't know if what you posted helped them or not!
I know we had problems with the forum late last year/early this year, but those seem ot have been solved. I try to assign points to ANY question I post.
Mo

[Richard Darling]

The main point made so far, that could be be acted on is:

The HP ITRC team makes assigning points an easier task for forum users.

One thing that has not been brought up is that we are saving HP alot of time and money by not placing calls on our contracts, and I am sure that they appreciate that...

Hopefully someone from there is monitoring this...

Richard

[Bruce Regittko_1]

Hi,

I agree that punitive actions should be avoided. Instead, I prefer shame and guilt.

One thing that may have some positive effect would be for a screen to be presented to a user when they attempt to post a new question. This screen would have links to their previous queries along with a summary of points assigned. One more layer, I know, but perhaps the gentle reminder would help.

One other feature mentioned earlier that I would like to see added would be a form that the user could use to assign point en masse, rather than on each individual response.

--Bruce

[Wodisch]

Hello Richard and the other interested persons,
my 0.02$:
- If we cannot make the "users" award points to the
answers, how about getting rid of that paradigm?
- If we do have threads like this one, why not change
the forums to allow "point-less" postings?
Especially like this one!
- I do NOT like the force/shame/guilt approach at all
and beeing a member for quiet some time I still DO
learn a lot, even from fewer postings then before ;-)
So: why not have some "mediator" or "forum-master"
assiging points to "open" replies, deletion of the
"unneccessary" or "worthless" replies, and so on?
if they can afford that more time?
- There is still the "HPADM" mailing list DutchWorks.nl,
where lots of us participate for many years now,
without "points" or even naming the most valuable
answers, but posting a "summary"!
- Could we not try awarding points to most valuable
answers in the DB already? So somebody with a
reply beeing helpful for hundreds of us would get
the "bigger" hat, not somebody with a lot ot nonesense
answers?
HTH,
Wodisch

[Richard Darling]

I think it is time to wrap this one up... The only point brought up that "Shayne & CO." could do something about is making the assignment of points easier...

oh, one other good point was brought up - people should use the ITRC search before posting a message - when I first started using the forum I would post a question immediately -kind of knee-jerk reaction...now I get most of my questions answered by doing a search.

Thanks for everyone's feedback on this one; and even more importantly for solving some difficult problems I have had at work...
Richard