Issues installing HP-UX 11i on a Visualize c3700

[Unxmaal]

I've tried and failed many attempts to install versions of HP-UX 11i newer than the 2000 release. 

When booting from CD, I get a system panic with the message

"WARNING: To avoid compromising data integrity, do not run HP-UX.11i (11.11) version 1.0 on this machine. It is not supported. Please call HP hardware support for details about the program to upgrade your PA8700 version 2.2 system processor to enable the HP-UX 11i operating system."

I have been unable to find more than a single reference to this error, with no proposed solutions.

Interestingly, SAM reports my CPU Version is "2.0 PA8700".

Is this something solved in a firmware patch? 

[support_s]

System recommended content:

1. HP-UX 11i Version 1 Installation and Update Guide, June 2004

If the above information is helpful, then please click on "Thumbs Up/Kudo" icon.

Thank you for being a HPE community member.

[Duncan Edmonstone]

So the link to the install/update guide gets you in the right direction. At the top of p50 you will see the following:

C3700 and J6700 Workstations Need Processor Board UpgradeC3700 and J6700 workstations currently support HP-UX 11.0 but require PA-8700 processor board upgrades (to version 2.3) to support HP-UX 11i v1. Contact your HP Customer Engineer for more details.

(although frustratingly the table on p52 contradicts this and suggests that FW version 2.0 is good enough! Typical old HP documentation!)

Now there's no point in contacting HP or HPE for this now as support is long gone, so they are not going to give you a process to do this or the PDC firmware to do it with. However I do see one possibility. Have a read of the following thread:

https://community.hpe.com/t5/HP-UX-General/Getting-a-C3700-to-run-hpux-11i/td-p/2715353#.YgIkGerP2Uk

One of the commenters on that thread suggests that the firmware update is right there on the install CD?

[Unxmaal]

Thanks for your suggestions!

I've searched all over and haven't found any patch that definitively upgrades this machine to v 2.3. I've checked the 4 11i install sets I have for a patch with this cability and didn't see anything that appeared to be a match.

I found at least 2 patches that list that they update the PDC firmware, but on apply, swinstall reports they're already installed.

I did confirm (via ISL) that the version is still 2.0. 

Since the original docs have vaporized, do you or anyone else have any idea of the patch filename or number?

Thanks!

[Duncan Edmonstone]

What OS do you currently have on the system, as that will influence the patch that needs to be installed (of course we are assuming the upgrade is available as a patch). The only firmware patches I can see for the C3700 are:

PHSS_25982 - for HP-UX11.00
PHSS_25983 - for HP-UX11.11

It's not clear what PDC version actually gets installed if you install those.

[Unxmaal]

I'm currently on 11.00, from the December 2000 release. 

I tried installing PHSS_25982 again. It declined, saying it was already installed, so I suggested it reinstall itself. It did so, but on reboot the PDC version remained 2.2 .

[Steven Schweda]

> [...] on a Visualize c3700

   I don't know what that is.  I have an HP C3700 workstation, which
says "hp workstation c3700" on its front.  Are we looking at the same
type system?

> [...] HP-UX 11i newer than the 2000 release.

   I don't know the release date of the OS on mine, but, around here:

dy# uname -a
HP-UX dy B.11.11 U 9000/785 2012616114 unlimited-user license

> I did confirm (via ISL) that the version is still 2.0.

   _Which_ "the version"?  As usual, showing actual actions (commands)
with their actual results (reports, error messages, ...) can be more
helpful than vague descriptions or interpretations.  Copy+paste is your
friend.

   For example, around here (serial console):

[...]
Processor is starting auto boot process.

To discontinue, press any key within 10 seconds.

Boot terminated.


----- Main Menu -------------------------------------------------------------

      Command                           Description
      -------                           -----------
      BOot [PRI|ALT|<path>]             Boot from specified path
      PAth [PRI|ALT|CON|KEY [<path>]]   Display or modify a path
      SEArch [DIsplay|[[IPL] [<path>]]] Search for boot devices

      COnfiguration [<command>]         Access Configuration menu/commands
      INformation [<command>]           Access Information menu/commands
      SERvice [<command>]               Access Service menu/commands
[...]
Main Menu: Enter command > in

----- Information Menu ------------------------------------------------------

      Command                           Description
      -------                           -----------
      ALL                               Display all system information
      BootINfo                          Display boot-related information
      CAche                             Display cache information
      ChipRevisions                     Display revisions of VLSI and firmware
      CoProcessor                       Display coprocessor information
      FwrVersion                        Display firmware version
[...]
Information Menu: Enter command > FwrVersion
FIRMWARE INFORMATION

  Firmware Version:           2.0

   4136   
[...]
Information Menu: Enter command > ChipRevisions

CHIP REVISIONS

              Module        Revision
        ------------------- --------
        System Board        0
        PA 8700-8700 CPU    2.3
        Mem/IO Controller   2.1
[...]

   As I read that, the "Firmware Version" is "2.0", but the "Revision"
of the "PA 8700-8700 CPU" is "2.3".  I know nothing, but your error
message:

      [...] Please call HP hardware support for details about the
      program to upgrade your PA8700 version 2.2 system processor to
      enable the HP-UX 11i operating system.

suggests to me an old-hardware problem ("your PA8700 version 2.2 system
processor"), not an old-firmware problem.  ("processor" and "firmware"
are spelled differently for a reason?)

   If I had gotten that error message, then I might start shopping
around for some newer antiques.  (But what do I know?)

> Yes this is a firmware upgrade - specifically the PDC (Processor
> Dependent Code). And Yes it must be 2.3 for 11i to load/function
> properly.
>
> Good news is it's available straight off the 11i CD.

   Among the things I don't know is where my HP-UX 11.11 CD-ROM might
be.

[Unxmaal]

The front bezel says 'hp workstation c3700'.

The side panel says 'HP Vizualize Workstations', with a graphic.

Using `echo "selclass qualifier cpu;infolog" | cstm > /tmp/cpuinfo` and viewing the resulting file, I see

Hardware path: 32


Product ID:                CPU          Module Type:              0
Hardware Model:            0x5dc        Software Model:           0x4
Hardware Revision:         0            Software Revision:        0
Hardware ID:               0            Software ID:              2011581617
Boot ID:                   0x2          Software Option:          0x81
Processor Number:          0            Path:                     32
Hard Physical Address:     0xfffffffffffa0000     Soft Physical Address:    0

Slot Number:               8            Software Capability:      0x100000f0
PDC Firmware Revision:        2.0       IODC Revision:            0
Instruction Cache [Kbyte]: 768          Processor Speed:          N/A
Processor State:           N/A
Monarch:                   Yes          Active:                   Yes
Data Cache        [Kbyte]: 1536
Instruction TLB   [entry]: 240          Processor Chip Revisions: 2.2
Data TLB Size     [entry]: 240          2nd Level Cache Size:[KB] N/A
Serial Number:             N/A
(...)
CPU 0

NOTICE:   This workstation will not support HP-UX 11i.  If you have any
          questions about the use of HP-UX 11i, please contact your local
          HP Hardware Support.

              Module        Revision
        ------------------- --------
        System Board        0
        PA 8700-8700 CPU    2.2
        Mem/IO Controller   2.1
        PCI Controller #0   4.0
        PCI Controller #1   4.0
        PCI Controller #4   4.0
        PCI Controller #6   4.0
        PDC                 2.0 (2 MB)
        Micro Controller    1.3
        Disk Board          3
        Power Supply        0

If the CPU's too old, that's ok. I'd just like to get a confirmation of that before giving up on this particular windmill.

[Unxmaal]

he front bezel says 'hp workstation c3700'.

The side panel says 'HP Vizualize Workstations', with a graphic.

Using `echo "selclass qualifier cpu;infolog" | cstm > /tmp/cpuinfo` and viewing the resulting file, I see

Hardware path: 32


Product ID:                CPU          Module Type:              0
Hardware Model:            0x5dc        Software Model:           0x4
Hardware Revision:         0            Software Revision:        0
Hardware ID:               0            Software ID:              2011581617
Boot ID:                   0x2          Software Option:          0x81
Processor Number:          0            Path:                     32
Hard Physical Address:     0xfffffffffffa0000     Soft Physical Address:    0

Slot Number:               8            Software Capability:      0x100000f0
PDC Firmware Revision:        2.0       IODC Revision:            0
Instruction Cache [Kbyte]: 768          Processor Speed:          N/A
Processor State:           N/A
Monarch:                   Yes          Active:                   Yes
Data Cache        [Kbyte]: 1536
Instruction TLB   [entry]: 240          Processor Chip Revisions: 2.2
Data TLB Size     [entry]: 240          2nd Level Cache Size:[KB] N/A
Serial Number:             N/A
(...)
CPU 0

NOTICE:   This workstation will not support HP-UX 11i.  If you have any
          questions about the use of HP-UX 11i, please contact your local
          HP Hardware Support.

              Module        Revision
        ------------------- --------
        System Board        0
        PA 8700-8700 CPU    2.2
        Mem/IO Controller   2.1
        PCI Controller #0   4.0
        PCI Controller #1   4.0
        PCI Controller #4   4.0
        PCI Controller #6   4.0
        PDC                 2.0 (2 MB)
        Micro Controller    1.3
        Disk Board          3
        Power Supply        0

If the CPU's too old, that's ok. I'd just like to get a confirmation of that before giving up on this particular windmill.

[Steven Schweda]

>    Among the things I don't know is where my HP-UX 11.11 CD-ROM might
> be.

   Some diligent searching (or luck) led me to a long-lost pile of five
CD-ROMs:

      HP-UX 11i Version 1
      Foundation Operating Environment
      Core OS
      Install and Recovery
      Version B.11.11
      December 2006
      CD <n> of 5

   "CD 1 of 5" seems to include PHSS_29342:

      https://support.hpe.com/hpesc/public/docDisplay?docId=pdb_na-PHSS_29342

   Whether it (or its 11.00(?) friend, PHSS_29341, which I don't see
here) does what you need is yet another thing which I don't know.

> It's not clear what PDC version actually gets installed if you install
> those.

   I see nothing informative on that point in the PHSS_29342 kit,
either.

   Researching this stuff might have been easier if HP hadn't broken so
many of the links/redirects to their old docs.

   If you want a copy of anything here, send an e-mail message to sms at
antinode.info.

[Duncan Edmonstone]

Yes, trying to diagnose this stuff when some of the old hardware links seem to have remained on hp.com, but the software is with hpe.com, and it's all end of support with neither company particularly caring about any of this is *hard*

Good spot on those newer FW patches though - for the OP I'd suggest if you are on 11.00 trying to find a copy of PHSS_29341 and installing that. Given it has a higher patch number than the one I previosuly suggested, "it would be nice to think" (I have zero evidence that it does) that it has a newer PDC firmware level in it. What is strange is that PHSS_29341 doesn't seem to be listed as superseding the previous one (which I would have expected it to)

Note that there are no 11.00 patches left on hpe.com, so even though I am a HPE employee with access to everything on there, I can't provide you with a copy of the patch. 11.11 patches are still available, but you need to have a 11.11 system to install those which you can't get to without the PDC upgrade... chicken & egg... hopefully you can turn up an old 11.00 patch CD with that patch on it.

<edit>

what you are looking for is this:

HWE1100_B.11.00.0403.3.depot  Hardware Enablement Patches for HP-UX 11.00, March 2004

That contains the PHSS_29341 patch I mentioned above.

</edit>

[Unxmaal]

From 11.00, I tried installing PHSS_29341 from HWE1100_B.11.00.0403.3.depot . On reboot I noticed the flash execution stating it wouldn't update the "Firmware Version" to 2.0 as it was the same version. I confirmed the PDC version has remained unchanged throughout these installs. 

I found one reference to the original "CPU version 2.2 needs to be updated to 2.3" error: https://community-hpe-com.translate.goog/t5/HP-UX/C3700-11-i%EC%9D%B8%EC%8A%A4%ED%86%A8%EB%AC%B8%EC%A0%9C/td-p/1171103?profile.language=ko&_x_tr_sl=ko&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Of course, it's in Japanese. 

Google Translated, it seems to indicate that I need installation media from 2005 or later. It's unclear if they refer to 11.0 or 11.11 media. The 11.11 I have is from 2006, but that didn't update the PDC firmware on install either.

---

Off the central topic: 

1. At this point I can install HP-UX from muscle memory. I'm using a 300gb 15krpm drive. I pick Advanced Install, and configure the system there. For the filesystems, I delete everything but /, /stand, and swap, and give all the space to /. I also enable large files on /. I've noticed (particularly with 11.0) that the installer sometimes has issues with a ~286gb root vol. Am I doing this wrong? Does HP-UX really care about having / at a certain size, or retaining separate volumes for /home or /tmp?
2. After first boot, for 11.0 and 11.11, I've had to copy /etc/nsswitch.files to /etc/nsswitch.conf , every time. Nothing works properly (CDE, swinstall) until I do this. Am I missing something?

[Patrick Wallek]

Your questions:

1)  It appears that you need a patch for 11.0 to allow disks larger than 256 GB to work:

Following or superseding patches are required for supporting disks larger than 256GB: 11.00 –PHKL_30553 ;  11.11 – PHKL_30622 

Both PHKL_30553 and PHKL_30622 were released in April 2004.  If your installation media is older than that, you are likely out of luck.

2)  No, you're not missing anything.  For as long as I can remember you have had to manually pick one of the /etc/nsswitch.* files and copy to /etc/nsswitch.conf

[Steven Schweda]

> Using `echo "selclass qualifier cpu;infolog" | cstm [...]

   Same here, except:

      Software ID:              2012616114

      Processor Chip Revisions: 2.3

      PA 8700-8700 CPU    2.3

And, of course, I get no "NOTICE:" complaining about my system.

> [...] On reboot I noticed the flash execution stating it wouldn't
> update the "Firmware Version" to 2.0 as it was the same version. [...]

   In a search, the actual message text might be more helpful than your
summary of the actual message text.

> [...] Copy+paste is your friend.

   Still true.

   The basic patch installation seems to look for the existence of
"/tmp/force_patch_install" (which bypasses the model check).  There
might be something similar for the "reflash" script/program itself?

   Words like "Processor Chip Revisions" still worry me, however.  All
this stuff seems to refer to "PDC", and it's not obvious to me that
that's where the problem lies.  (But what do I know?)

> [...] If you have any questions about the use of HP-UX 11i, please
> contact your local HP Hardware Support.

   There are some C3700 main boards on Ebay for under $150.  (A whole
C3700 which is claimed to run 11.11 costs more.)

[Unxmaal]

I've attached screenshots showing the error message and other info.

System PanicProcessor InformationI/O Module InformationChip RevisionsWarningsFirmware Version

[Steven Schweda]

> I've attached screenshots [...]

   Plain ASCII text is an advantage of a serial console.  Note that
mine, too, says:

  Console path: GRAPHICS(2)
  Keyboard path: USB

but the serial console still works.

> [...] showing the error message and other info.

   But not the patch failure?

"strings /usr/conf/reflash.6750" found message text including:

[...]
Current firmware (%d.%d) will be replaced by revision %d.%d, described as:
    "%s"
    "%s"
The firmware update operation failed.
Contact your HP representative.
Current firmware (%d.%d) will NOT be replaced by revision %d.%d.
Current firmware will NOT be replaced by revision %d.%d.
Current firmware (%d.d) will NOT be replaced.
Current firmware will NOT be replaced.
[...]

   So someone seems to have found a "2.0" someplace.

   As usual, I don't know if it matters, but around here, the memory
report says:

MEMORY INFORMATION

NOTICE:   Memory has been initialized but not tested because FASTBOOT is
          enabled.  To test memory, disable FASTBOOT with the FASTBOOT
          command in the CONFIGURATION menu and reboot the system.

  MEMORY STATUS TABLE

  Slot    Size    Status
  ----   ------   -------------
    0       1GB   Active       
    1       1GB   Active       
    2       1GB   Active       
    3       1GB   Active       

  TOTAL MEMORY = 4096MB

  MEMORY FAULT TABLE

  Slot    Size    Status
  ----   ------   -------------
    0       1GB   Active       
    1       1GB   Active       
    2       1GB   Active       
    3       1GB   Active       

  TOTAL MEMORY = 4096MB

  MEMORY FAULT TABLE

  Slot    Size    Status
  ----   ------   -------------


                     Memory Installation Guidelines
                     ------------------------------

- For best performance, load DIMMs in ascending slot order:  0, 1, 2, ...


   Active, Installed Memory          : 4096MB of SDRAM
   Deallocated Pages                 : 0 Pages
                                       -----------
   Available Memory                  : 4096MB

   Good Memory Required by OS        : 2032MB


         Memory
   HVERSION  SVERSION
   -------- ----------
    0x09c0   0x0900

My "Required by OS "2032MB" looks much bigger than your "17MB", and
it's also much bigger than your "Available 1024MB", but that might be
related to 11.11?

   I'm still betting on your "PA 8700-8700 CPU    2.2" (instead of
"2.3") under "CHIP REVISIONS", which still sounds to me like hardware
rather than firmware, but the "PDC 1.6 (2 MB)" (instead
of "2.0") is in that pile, too.

   Why you see:

FIRMWARE INFORMATION

  Firmware Version:           1.6

   4125

while I see:

FIRMWARE INFORMATION

  Firmware Version:           2.0

   4136   

and why the patch complained about 'it wouldn't update the "Firmware
Version" to 2.0 as it was the same version.' are other mysteries.

   Too many confusing version numbers; not enough good documentation.

[Steven Schweda]

   I still know nothing, but more Web searching (hp "c3700" cpu "2.3")
led to some resellers who used descriptions like, "A6057-60015 HP C3700
System Board Rev 2.3" or "A6057-69015, System processor board assembly -
Includes one 750MHz PA-RISC 8700 processor with revision 2.3 chip set
(Can run either HP-UX 11.0 or 11i)".

 Combining "System Board Rev 2.3" and "revision 2.3 chip set" with
"contact your local HP Hardware Support" leads me to believe that there
is more involved here than a simple firmware update patch.  (If all you
needed was a patch, then why "contact your local HP Hardware Support"?)

   So, if I still cared, I might pop a cover, and see if I could find a
part number like "A6057-60015" (or something similar but different) on
the main board.  Anything older-looking might be a clue.

[Unxmaal]

After more research, I suspect these issues arise from a series of upgrades over time.

Note the model number on the original sticker:

Original Sticker

This says "Visualize C3600".

Asset Tag

The asset tag shows what the system has currently, except the RAM is less now.

Case Front

The label on the front of the case says "c3700", but is poorly-positioned.

Chip Versions 1Chip Versions 2

Finally, per a prior reply's mention of the PDC Version, I noticed that the PDC firmware has indeed been updated during at least one of my installations, from 1.6 to 2.0. 

[Steven Schweda]

> After more research, I suspect these issues arise from a series of
> upgrades over time.

   Or the series of upgrades ended too soon.

>    So, if I still cared, I might pop a cover, and see if I could find a
> part number like "A6057-60015" (or something similar but different) on
> the main board.  Anything older-looking might be a clue.

   Still true.

   Mine is a genuine "hp workstation c3700" according to its original
lower-rear label, and the "hp workstation c3700" on the front is printed
directly on the gray rail below the floppy drive (centered), not stuck
on near the top.  (And mine doesn't have paper labels covering the vent
holes.  And is generally less beat-up-looking than yours.)

   But, by itself, I wouldn't bet that being an upgraded c3600 is the
real problem.  My theory is that you need a newer c3700 CPU/main board
(or, at least, a newer CPU).  In other words, one more/better upgrade.

> [...] I noticed that the PDC firmware has indeed been updated during
> at least one of my installations, from 1.6 to 2.0.

   Ok, but the real problem seems to be the "PA 8700-8700 CPU    2.2"
under "CHIP REVISIONS", and I suspect/fear that that's old hardware, not
(only) old firmware.  My guess remains that you'll need to find a newer
CPU/main board (with a newer (2.3) CPU). If you want to get to HP-UX
11.11, that is.