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02-14-2003 08:47 AM
02-14-2003 08:47 AM
Network Problems
[cadb02a]# netstat -rn
Routing tables
Dest/Netmask Gateway Flags Refs Use Interface Pmtu
127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 0 1702833 lo0 4136
172.28.60.22 172.28.60.22 UH 0 7174243 lan2 4136
172.28.60.101 172.28.60.101 UH 0 0 lan1 4136
192.168.2.2 192.168.2.2 UH 0 17 lan0 4136
192.168.2.0 192.168.2.2 U 2 0 lan0 1500
172.28.60.0 172.28.60.22 U 2 0 lan2 1500
127.0.0.0 127.0.0.1 U 0 0 lo0 4136
default 172.28.60.1 UG 0 0 lan2 1500
Notice that the default gateway shows NO use. Do I have something configured wrong or is this just the way it's supposed to look?
Next, notice that the PMTU size is different on some interfaces than others. This 4136 MTU size has caused problems before and we had to set "large frames" on the switch to make it handle the large frame sizes. I would like to set them all to 1500 since the WAN can support only 1500 MTU size.
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02-14-2003 11:54 AM
02-14-2003 11:54 AM
Re: Network Problems
The PMTU is not really a problem. If you look at it very carefully you will see that the only times it uses the 4136 is when it is talking to itself. (the 127.0.0.0 and 127.0.0.1 as well as the three IP addresses for its network cards) This never goes out on the wire so your switch won't see it. When it talks to a network (addresses ending in .0 in your table) or the default it uses 1500. Your large frame problem may have been caused by VLAN tagging. This adds a few extra bytes to each packet so a max size packet will be seen as too big by some switches that don't know what is going on.
Ron
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02-14-2003 11:59 AM
02-14-2003 11:59 AM
Re: Network Problems
My config is the same as yours. I do not see anything abnormal.
Hai
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02-14-2003 12:01 PM
02-14-2003 12:01 PM
Re: Network Problems
PHNE_17434
http://www1.itrc.hp.com/service/patch/patchDetail.do?patchid=PHNE_17434&context=hpux:800:11:00
This patch has no dependencies and does not require a reboot.
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02-14-2003 01:29 PM
02-14-2003 01:29 PM
Re: Network Problems
As for the PMTU, I found this information (below).. Looks like there is not a way to set the MTU to a "fixed" value. There are two options for setting the "discovery strategy" using the ndd command:
p_pmtu_strategy:
Set the Path MTU Discovery strategy: 0 disables Path MTU
Discovery; 1 enables Strategy 1; 2 enables Strategy 2.
Because of problems encountered with some firewalls, hosts,
and low-end routers, IP provides for selection of either
of two discovery strategies, or for completely disabling the
algorithm. The tunable parameter ip_pmtu_strategy controls
the selection.
Strategy 1: All outbound datagrams have the "Don't Fragment"
bit set. This should result in notification from any intervening
gateway that needs to forward a datagram down a path that would
require additional fragmentation. When the ICMP "Fragmentation
Needed" message is received, IP updates its MTU for the remote
host. If the responding gateway implements the recommendations
for gateways in RFC??1191, then the next hop MTU will be included
in the "Fragmentation Needed" message, and IP will use it.
If the gateway does not provide next hop information, then IP
will reduce the MTU to the next lower value taken from a table
of "popular" media MTUs.
Strategy 2: When a new routing table entry is created for a
destination on a locally connected subnet, the "Don't Fragment"
bit is never turned on. When a new routing table entry for a
non-local destination is created, the "Don't Fragment" bit is
not immediately turned on. Instead,
o An ICMP "Echo Request" of full MTU size is generated and
sent out with the "Don't Fragment" bit on.
o The datagram that initiated creation of the routing table
entry is sent out immediately, without the "Don't Fragment"
bit. Traffic is not held up waiting for a response to the
"Echo Request".
o If no response to the "Echo Request" is received, the
"Don't Fragment" bit is never turned on for that route;
IP won't time-out or retry the ping. If an ICMP "Fragmentation
Needed" message is received in response to the "Echo Request",
the Path MTU is reduced accordingly, and a new "Echo Request"
is sent out using the updated Path MTU. This step repeats as
needed.
o If a response to the "Echo Request" is received, the
"Don't Fragment" bit is turned on for all further packets
for the destination, and Path MTU discovery proceeds as for
Strategy 1.
Assuming that all routers properly implement Path MTU Discovery,
Strategy 1 is generally better - there is no extra overhead for the
ICMP "Echo Request" and response. Strategy 2 is available
only because some routers, or firewalls, or end hosts have been
observed simply to drop packets that have the DF bit on without
issuing the "Fragmentation Needed" message. Strategy 2 is more
conservative in that IP will never fail to communicate when using
it. [0,2] Default: Strategy 2
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02-14-2003 01:33 PM
02-14-2003 01:33 PM
Re: Network Problems
If you notice in the patch description, and in my last message, that patch does NOT require the machine to be rebooted.
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02-18-2003 11:01 AM
02-18-2003 11:01 AM
Re: Network Problems
The use of ip_pmtu_strategy == 2 is discouraged by HP because it can be used by malicious remote systems to trigger a Denial of Service attack.
The route command, with the -p option can be used to specify a specific PTMU to a specific remote host.
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02-19-2003 10:10 AM
02-19-2003 10:10 AM
Re: Network Problems
And also, you guys are telling me that the large frame sizes are not going out on the wire. But we had problems that indicated that they were. I had two HP-UX 11.0 systems plugged into a Cisco switch. I had NFS mounts going from one system to another. I was copying very large (1-2Gb) files from Oracle backups across the NFS mount to write to tape. The symptoms were that the copy would start out quick, the dest. file size would grow rapidly, and then stop and begin to grow very slowly. It would take literally all day to copy what should have been done in 5-10 minutes. The Cisco analyst used the sniffer to see what was happening and the switch was having to chop up large frames coming in, causing alot of retries. He turned on a setting called "jumbo frames", I believe it was, on the Cisco switch, and the problem went away! That tells me that large frames ARE going out on the wire.
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02-19-2003 11:07 AM
02-19-2003 11:07 AM
Re: Network Problems
The route -p
The two are complementary, not mutually exclusive.
Now as for the "large frames." There is of course always the possibility of a bug,
Sometimes a duplex mismatch can result in a system thinking it has seen a large frame. Other times, vlan tagging might cause that.
It would be best to get a packet trace of the frames to see just what is being sent.
I have heard that the "large frames" supported by Cisco kit only go as far as 2000-odd bytes (perhaps Cisco varies from kit to kit here). If those routes were causing "large frames" I would have expected them to be ~4136 bytes, which would still be larger than the MTU available on the Cisco.
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02-19-2003 12:18 PM
02-19-2003 12:18 PM
Re: Network Problems
See:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps700/products_configuration_example09186a008010edab.shtml
I don't quite understand how an HPUX could be generating oversize frames unless as Rick said there is a bug or you have accidentally turned on VLAN tagging on the HPUX. Understand this is possible with some of the later versions. It is also unlikely that they would start to be generated only after the download had progressed for a while.
I would look for a duplex mismatch or bad cable or port which would generate a lot of collisions or a buffer problem on the receiving end. Could also be a bottleneck or noisy link somewhere and you start dropping packets from the queue which would shrink the window size and cause it to slow down. Had a T1 once which worked fine at low speed but would start slipping under load. Turned out someone had set the distance parameter to the shortest value because the two boxes were right next to each other. Turned out there was a 250' roll of cable connecting them that was hiding under the floor board.
Ron
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02-19-2003 12:32 PM
02-19-2003 12:32 PM
Re: Network Problems
i'm not sure what HP-UX tagged vlans does, if it keeps a 1500 byte MTU and thus has slightly larger frame sizes, or if it drops the MTU and keeps the maximum frame size. for "jumbo frames" we do 9000 byte MTU, only on the Gig, not the 100BT and nothing else between 1500 and 9000
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02-20-2003 11:27 AM
02-20-2003 11:27 AM
Re: Network Problems
PHNE_21767 (already installed)
PHNE_22566 (already installed)
PHNE_22962
PHNE_25580
I'm going to install the last 2 this weekend. They do require a reboot.
Rick, I've been looking for that white paper I was talking about, but haven't been able to find it yet.