Online Backups

[Brad Marks]

I'm running HP-UX 10.20 on a k-420. Due to major software changes, the size of our application's data has grown from 18gb. to almost 30gb. Up until now I've been able to perform single-volume, unattended, backups of live data with 3rd party software, but have found that it will not deal with largefiles.
This system has a dat3 tape drive that used to be able to take a full backup on one volume. That, now, is a thing of the past.
We are a 24x7 shop and downtime is a struggle to acquire. Here are my questions:
1. If I get OnLine JFS and additional disk, can I perform online backups under 10.20?
2. What media should I consider to achieve a single-volume backup or, at least, an unattended backup?
3. Any other considerations that I'm missing?

Thanks to all for your help.
Brad

[Steven E. Protter]

The transfer rate on your dat3 tapes is too slow and is likely your bottleneck.

Best case scenario, they hold 25 Gig and you get an actual transfer rate of 5 Gig an hour. Probably less because the backup is hot and the database is open.

If you can obtain and install the right scsi card an HP Ultrium 230 or 430 drive will multiply your transfer rate, making your backup more manageable.

Obviously there is downtime associated with installing an I/O card.

With this scenario, you may not have to add disk and do the old copy it then back it up method. You are still under those circumstances going to hit the I/O limits of the dat3 drive, which I'm painfully familiar with in my shop.

Long term, you've also go OS issues because 10.20 is obsolete and you've got support problems with HP.

SEP

[Eugeny Brychkov]

Even with JFS you should unmount file systems and deactivate vg to have proper backup. Or backup only closed files not being accessed in backup window.
To get this work faster create another file system, and then simply after production file system(s) unmounted (or files are closed) copy needed files (raw area) to that file system, then activate and mount production file system(s), but make a parallel backup from that copied contents
Eugeny

[Brad Marks]

I was under the impression that OnLine JFS offers true online backups via file system 'snapshots'. Am I mistaken? If not, is it available on 10.20 (I know it is on 11.i).
Thanks!

[Leif Halvarsson_2]

Hi,
What kind of data do you back up (ordinary files, databases etc.) ? If ordinary files, Online JFS can make a snapshot of the filesystem but you can't be sure, if any files is open, this files is consistent when the snapshot is taken. If it is a database (for example Oracle) there is tools for Online backups without using Online JFS.

[Tim Sanko]

It really depends how much money you have to spend. We have multiple StorageTEK L700s
and passthrough and Veritas.

Our production backups are being done on EMC EDM if that is a help...



Tim

[Tim Sanko · Accepted solution]

Depending upon your storage,
36 G is a small backup (We do about 6 TB nightly for incrementals and databases)

I was thinking about it and for that simple a solution get a DLT8000 and Microlite's BackupEdge. With that little data I'd use that particular product if the DB could be taken down and left down for the duration...


If not , I'd recommend a full filesystem for all storage.

Incrementals are occasionally disasterous for DB applications.

Tim

[Donny Jekels]

Brad,

Online JFS only allow you to extend the filesystem while its online. ie without unmounting it before you can grow it.

As for faster online backup, that kinda confuses me.

the best way I would do it is to get the volume mirrored. sync up, split the mirror and do the back from the mirror.

also consider getting a faster tape drive such as DLT.

peace
Donny

[Tim Sanko]

It really depends as to where you spend your money.

I could still be happy with a DLT8000. I also have 24 Ultrium Fibre channel LTOs

So where and how much money will your company spend.

[Brad Marks]

Thanks all for your input.

Tim: I have been using Microlite Edge for the past five years, but as soon as files got > 2gb., I found that Edge can't deal with largefiles under HP-UX 10.20!
I even spoke with their tech support and my case in now (lost?) in engineering.

I'm thinking of going DLT with OnLine JFS' Online Backup snapshot technology.

Thanks again for your help
Brad

[Steven E. Protter]

The root here is confusion about what Online JFS does and doesn't do.

It does not speed up backups at all. That's an I/O issue covered well in my earlier post.

It is quite nice when you need to expand a fs in a 24 7 shop without unmounting the fs.

I've only used it in class, but have budget to buy it this year, but not had the time yet.

You issue right now is your tape drive and the top speed of the SCSI card/bus that its hung off of.

If you buy enough disk, you could mirror/ux the drive and get your snapshot be breaking the mirror. It won't improve the backup speed, but at least you won't be doing it on a hot database.

SEP

[Patrick Wallek]

Brad,

Yes, OnlineJFS DOES allow for snapshots of filesystems. In short, if you have OnlineJFS, you can create the snapshoot filesystem, do your backup, and then unmount the snapshot allowing all transactions that have been logged to be written.

Now the catch with this is, if this is something like an Oracle DB, then you would be better off mirroring the DB, shutting down the DB, splitting the mirror, bringing the DB back up and then doing your backup from the mirror copy. You really have to be careful with database backups. If you do something just wrong, then your backup is worthless and you won't be able to recover your DB.

The type of application and data is it you are trying to back up will determine what method is best for you to use.

As far as tape capacity goes, I'd look at DLT or maybe LTO. If you really like DDS, I saw recently where there is now DDS5 out. I think HP released it within the last few weeks and it should give you the capacity you need.

[Steven E. Protter]

Another potentially troubling thought comes to mind.

What is the application that owns the data. If its Oracle for example your backup methodology won't work unless the database is downed. Fuzzy backups aren't supported there.

More broadly, have you had the time to test if you can restore off this dat3 tape?

No need to point this post it should have been in the original one.

SEP

[Tim Sanko]

If you can upgrade to 11.0/ii.i the Microlite product will still do you well. And it works with larger than 2GB files...

10.2 I haven't got anymore...


Tim

[Tim Sanko]

SEP has the right idea about the backup and using MirrorDisk/UX. We use EMC products and effectively do the same thing with BCVs.

We then mount the BCVs and back them up with a tool.

(We have used BackupEdge, Veritas, EDM, Omniback,etc..)

The way we operate is we shutdown the database, split the mirrors(in our case BCVs, a third mirror),restart the database, mount the BCVs and
initiate a full system backup of the database...

The MirrorDisk/UX - BCV type of backup removes the timeline for the backups as long as it finishes before the next backup.

[Gary Yu]

why not Omniback and a small autochanger(9-slot), it's cheap, and it's standard HP ...

thanks,
Gary

[Rick Garland]

You got a lot of good suggestions. In my opinion you will need/want to get a tape library/autochanger. The issue of ever expanding filesystems can be resolved and you do not have to worry about tape changes or running out of tape. Yes there will be some money to spend but do not discount your backups! I am sure you have heard the old saying - it is not IF your hard drive fails, but WHEN. Spending the money on the necessary equipment and software to do backups will save a bundle down the road (maybe even your job as well).

As to the software you may be better off using fbackup instead of the 3rd party product you talked about. fbackup will support the large files and is a standard utility within HPUX. This could save some $ and allow you to invest in the hardware.
A DLT8000 or Ultrium would be my choices.

Also, HPUX 10.20 is no longer supported after June of this year. Start your planning or be ready to spend some big bucks to have the support.

[Brad Marks]

Thanks again to all.

We are backing up simple datafiles (not an RDBM), so I'm leaning toward a DLT and OnLine JFS.

Brad

[vasundhara]

I think, OMNI Backup tool will be useful for you. You will not have any down time and you can take backup for any size. This tool works great with HP10.20 You can take db backup as well as file system backups with this.

Regards
VJ.