Please Post Forums Issues - October 2005

[Cheryl Griffin]

The ITRC forums do not employ Google's search engines. So, we need to stick with what we have the ability to address.

Pete - that is an example we can use. Will report this to the lab.

[Andrew Merritt_2]

Hi Cheryl,
I wasn't trying to say we should use google, merely pointing out the poor performance of the built in search engine; if it finds only 2 matches when google finds 145, it is, in my opinion, broken. You commented on Pete's example; was there something wrong with either of mine?

Andrew (just curious)

[Michael Schulte zur Sur]

Hi,

this seems HP-UX to me.
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=962855

Can anyone move that?

Thanks,

Michael

[Steven E. Protter]

Backing up Merijn on the signature item.

Yes, the profile kind of covers it, but the signature item handles it better. Merijn's tweak, allowing last minute change is nice but should not hold up feature release.

I at least understand the complexity of rolling out features and dealing with bugs. I appreciate all the efforts of the HP team.

SEP

[Alex Lavrov.]

Just noticed:

The link at the buttom "using the site means you accept its terms", leading to "http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/help/lpTermAndCond.do" and doesn't work (error 404).

Alex.

[Stephen Kebbell]

Hi,

this thread should be moved:
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=963148

It's a question about a K-Class 9000 server in the Proliant forum.
Thanks!

Stephen

[Andrew Merritt_2]

The "New HP Forum Discussions" message for Wednesday did not arrive, either, that's two this week. It had been working OK for a while.

Andrew

[V. Nyga]

Hi,

the same problem like Andrew's for me - no 'New HP Forum Discussions' since Monday.

Volkmar

*And why are the navigation icons in the notification message only low priority?
Why should I return to the old thread?*

[Oguz Kutlu Asik]

Hi,

1. Is it possible to seperate unrated and rated (1-7) threads in my response(s), in our member profile?

2. Is it possible to send mail to forum member for all of his/her threads he/she started and having at least one reply with unassigned points? Hm bad idea. You've got the point anyway, notification for unassigned points. What about a welcome message explains all forum rules? Repeat that message every month?

3. Could you delete that thread;

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=962344

[Pete Randall]

The link to Merijn's stats posting on the ITRC main page points to September's thread rather than October's.


Pete

[Arunvijai_4]

Why not changing " This forum is for discussing HP Unix System Administration on HP 9000 Servers. This includes installation, configuration, debugging, and performance."

To

This forum is for discussing HP Unix System Administration on HP-UX Servers. This includes installation, configuration, debugging, and performance."

Just a thought since we have a separate forum for 9000 under servers.

-Arun

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

Pete, that's my fault. I forgot to update Cheryl/Dan
Did so now
Sorry

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn

[Jan van den Ende]

Cheryl, Dan,

Proliant question in VMS forum:

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=963625

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

[Mel Burslan]

hpux question in servers/9000 section:

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=963754

could somebody move it please ?

[Jan van den Ende]

Cheryl, Dan,

HPUX on tour in VMS land.

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=963769

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi Cheryl & Dan:

I have some simple, frank answers for the "under consideration" items that you annotated.

With regard to point #2A (bunnies and closed threads), there is a good reason to allow the bunny icon to appear when a thread is closed, yet no posters have been awarded points equaling or exceeding eight. That is, if the thread author has found a solution, AND documented it, then the bunny serves the same purpose as a solution provided by a non-author.

With regard to point #5 (the dysfunctional search engine), I have a very simple answer. DISCARD your engine and point users to something that works -- viz. Google. As you know, my involment in this Forum dates to mid-2000. The search mechanism didn't work well. consistently, or reliably then, and in my opinion, it doesn't now. Follow one of the fundamental tenets of UNIX. Don't waste time re-inventing something you don't have to do.

As for point #6 (formatted text), I really don't understand the difficulty of AT LEAST retaining leading space characters so that simple indentation is preserved. The loss of the visual clues is sad and unncessary. In my opinion, making a professional site look professional should be your highest priority.

WIth regard to point #10 (new "headgear"), I will be brutally frank and note that this has got to be the easiest, but least significant, change your developers could make. Based on two previous upgrades, if one uses the appearance of new hats as a metric for the speed at which ANY bug or new feature is implemented, one might conclude that eons will pass for any of the IMPORTANT requests to be fulfiled.

I don't engender to start another "point" diatribe. I know that the principles of online communities were closely studied by HP in constructing this Forum and that our hats, to some extent, are icons for two community principles: trustworthiness and reputation. There are, however, infrequent, or now inactive contributors, whose names alone (not points or hats) would cause me to scrutinize their contributions. The "motivation" provided by the appearance of new "headgear" doesn't escape me, but it shouldn't be a high priority.

With my warmest regards...

...JRF...

[Allan Bowman]

As a newbie to the forums, I was wondering if there is some reason for this thread being posted in the wrong place? I realize most of the responders are HP-UX "experts", but don't these conversations belong in the "Your questions regarding ITRC forums - general" category so the rest of the forum community can participate?

Those of us with little or no interest in HP-UX would not know where to find your general forum discussions unless specifically told where by someone who knows - or is that the intent?

As far as the questions about closing threads and awarding points/bunnies... I have found that the points awarded tend to be generally meaningless, so it doesn't really matter. The only way points would be meaningful would be to limit the number of points one can award/receive in a single thread. If the original poster awards 10 points to an answer, that should mean that he/she has solved their problem with that answer and the thread should automatically be closed. It is pretty ridiculous when a dozen people each get 10 points on the same thread (without a whole lot of new information on each message). An individual should also be limited to 10 points (or maybe something like 16) for a single thread - there seem to be quite a few people who respond and then immediately have a follow-up response (not a further clarification requested by the poster) and they get points for both responses.

Of course all of this is in the control of the posters - if they were more reasonable in their awarding of points, most of the problems would go away (but then people would complain that they aren't being awarded points when they feel they deserve them).

Just thought I'd throw my two cents in...

Allan

[Steven E. Protter]

Interesting how this month's thread goes.

Respectfully I disagree with the past post saying points are meaningless. I've gotten my share of bunnies, equally offset by perfect answers with no reward.

I feel good when a good answer gets a bunny and that keeps me coming back. That's how I feel.

I think there should be no bunny on a closed thread unless a bunny is actually handed out. I bet JRF's argument, but respectfully disagree.

With regards to the search engine, I'm with JRF on that one.

I was in the jab today trying with a team to get a malfunctioning MSA-1000 SAM to fail over the way it was designed to do. The guy on the hot seat was running google searches, trying to find a guide on how to make sure both the controllers in the thing were configured correctly.

He was running a google search. Several ITRC threads with some relavence came up. Someone kindly pointed out a zero point answer I'd given and realized it was me.

Bottom line is google provided an answer. It didn't solve the problem and there probably won't be a thread on this problem.

Just for grins, I punched the search parameters my colleague used on google into the ITRC search engine.

I got nothing.

I got nothing with a specific search in docs.hp.com and had to poke around for half an hour to provide an install guide on the hardware and software for Linux.

If google isn't permitted to index docs.hp.com please make it so.

With the greatest of respect, your search engine is broke. A former employee explained the reason to me at HP World 2004 and its not a good enough reason to provide bad search service.

Please fix it or get rid of it.

HP is really good at a lot of things. Just not search engines.

SEP

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

JRF,

--8<---
With regard to point #2A (bunnies and closed threads), there is a good reason to allow the bunny icon to appear when a thread is closed, yet no posters have been awarded points equaling or exceeding eight. That is, if the thread author has found a solution, AND documented it, then the bunny serves the same purpose as a solution provided by a non-author.
-->8---

Fully true, but I think the main complaint is not that there is a bunny in a thread that has no 8-10, but the author closes the thread with a bunny without assigning points to at least one answer int the thread at the point of closing it.

I'm fully subscribing to the idea of allowing the author to close the thread with a bunny, but I would just not allow thread closure when there are still unassigned posts. IMHO all posts should be assigned to when a thread is closed, otherwise, just disable the close button :)

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn

[MarkSyder]

I'm glad Allan has brought up the point of people following up their initial post a couple of minutes later (although I think it's actually only one person).

I consider it a deliberate attempt to "play the system" and receive more points than you've actually earned.

Nothing can be done about it, but I'm glad this practice has been brought out into the open.

Mark Syder (like the drink but spelt different)

[Andrew Merritt_2]

I'm not sure if you mean me, but I know I have followed up to my own reply at least a couple of times when I've thought of extra information I missed the first time. In my case it certainly isn't an attempt to get extra points.

I don't think you're getting at me, just pointing out that at least in some cases the behaviour may be innocent.


Andrew

[Pete Randall]

No, Andrew, I'm sure Mark was not talking about you. I've done it on occasion myself and I'm sure Mark wasn't talking about me either.


Pete

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

Nor do I hope he was talking about me, and I follow up on myself occasionally too, but that might have either of the following causes

- browser problems
- I test on a different/second machine and not that my first answer wasn't correct for all systems
- I made a serious typo and there was no moderator available to instantly `fix' it
- my post took a bit long. I always check the thread *after* I submit, and I see some other's post entered while I was writing, and that post has some fault/error/inconsistence or anything that I feel the urge to reply to (I'm not a fast typer)
- I simply /forgot/ something in my first post, and think it adds to the last

And all those that agree with Allan, I don't. There is a serious "lag" sometimes, and the experienced users need much less time to find an answer than the newbees. The latter group also needs a chance to climb. Give them a window of credit: 20 minutes is maybe to high, but two minutes is way to low. That's what I need to type "Hello World\n"!

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn [ who fiercely objects to limiting the total amount of points able to give in a thread ]

[MarkSyder]

I wasn't talking about Andrew, Pete, or Procura. I think most of us can tell the difference between someone who has remembered some information he accidentally omitted and someone who is deliberately making more than one post.

But Allan was right - there is more than one person doing it.

At that point I will say no more on the subject. I do not want to be drawn into naming names (I think we can all spot the guilty parties) and if I continue to say "no, not you" the first time I don't give that reply I've named someone!

Mark

[Gavin Clarke]

I quite often follow up posts minutes later.

I am not trying to play the system simply adding things that I think might be relevant or of help. With further experience I expect I will be able to post better answers. Just as for a long time I didn't really feel that I could post any answers at all as they would not be good enough or add anything more to the understanding of the person posting the query.

If I could edit my post then I would do that. I have no desire to gain points that I do not deserve.

I agree that the 10 points all round thing isn't particularly helpful to those looking for answers later.