Please post your forums issues - August 2004

[charles k. norman]

I am very much attracted to the excellent points by Pete above and in particular:-

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....I have to question the need for the "close" feature at all. You may note that I've never asked for it in all the time that I've been posting my top 10 (or so) improvement list.
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Perhaps a referendum of the forums might be in order to evaluate whether members want to:-

(a) remove the feature, or
(b) amend the feature so it cannot be used for a period of time, or
(c) keep it now it is here.

As a mere novice I felt it was appropriate to read many of the forums archives as a process of participation. I have not come across a clamour for a close thread feature from a host or people. Pete's top 10 would seem to indicate the contrary. Indeed I have not seen a consultative process across the forums. It does not seem that all the forums are asked for comments on proposals. Such an approach would afford user views to be fully taken into account. What thread shows the host of REQUESTS?

Perhaps if it is in the hands of the author to decide whether or not their post is solved, by using the closed thread procedure and allocating the bunny, it might then be time to say dispense with the points. In any event the forum guidelines will have to be written for posts without points but showing a bunny.

Maybe it is appropriate to use a completely different symbol for posts "solved by the author" as destinct from posts solved by the excellent efforts of the members of the forums. I have also seen a post by HP in one of the forums where it reads closed without any explanation and the same was done in another post by the same poster resurrecting an old thread, which had nothing to do with HP Products. The action of resurrection has led to a request for deletion on such grounds and it has been removed. I think the close thread procedure requires such a high standard of conduct that in the main it will not be operated properly.

[MarkSyder]

These closed threads are going way over the top! The first page of the forum consists of little else.

Is there really any need for people to close every thread they've ever opened, even if no one's contributed to it for two years or more?

I'm going to leave all my old threads alone unless someone puts a new post on an old thread - then I'll close it.

Until HP come up with a way of stopping the closed threads from going to the top of the list, is there some way we can encourage people to think carefully as to whether or not an old thread needs to be closed?

Mark

[Pete Randall]

I have to agree with you Mark. This is ridiculous! Alexander is closing every thread he's ever had, and the requirement that there be a closing remark is presenting us with such classics as "cul8r" and "bye bye". You can barely find real threads amongst all the chaff!


Pete

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

Hey, all, hold back!

HP did what we asked: enable us to close a thread.

We are all happy with that. It's not perfect (yet), but it will be, and then everybody is happy.
Be glad that is actually *used* which means that the implemented feature meets our needs.
At the moment there is a rush in closed threads popping up. It's a new feature, what did you expect?
It will prove valuable later on.

Look beyond the closed threads for two weeks, and then restate your opinion.

HP, THANKS!

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn [ who now wants the speed back, and a signature ]

[Alexander M. Ermes]

Hi Dan.
Thanks for your efforts and hard work.
Rgds
Alexander M. Ermes

[Jeroen Peereboom]

Dan,

* last few days: server is sometimes very slow (at least I have to wait 10 - 20 secondes before I see the next web page).

* closing threads is a good thing. After a few weeks, if we all close our (new) threads, we will be used to it. Just wait and see. (Maybe forum members should not close all their old threads, or you close all threads with last reply before April 1st. But it's not that important to me.)

* I'm glad to see that searching the forums no longer shows every hit twice.

Thanks,

JP.

[Patrick Wallek]

Dan,

Here's my 2 cents worth......

I am glad to see the close thread feature. I have asked for it on a couple of occassions, if I recall correctly.

I agree that some folks going back and closing very old threads is cluttering up the Forums.

I think there should be a couple of options though.

Option 1 - For new threads created, leave the process as is. I think requiring a comment by the thread author is a good idea as long as it is used correctly. The thread author SHOULD indicate what solved their problem in their comment. I also think the idea of a different icon for a solution posted by the thread author is a good idea. The magic bunny and the different author-solution icond do not have to be mutually exclusive. The author may assign 8-10 points to a couple of different posts when the solution they need is a combination of posts.

Option 2 - There should be a way for us to go back and close OLD threads without those threads popping up to the top of the list. Maybe a option in the list of our questions in our profile, where you can just click on a check-box and close a thread. I thought about closing a bunch of my old threads until I saw others suddenly popping to the top of the list.

[Steve Post]

My only comment is that the performance of the website went horribly bad. This is probably just for me.

I'll be specific. I log into the IT resource center, wait 5 minutes, then 30 minutes, then..... I decide to not use it that day.

Or after 20 minutes, it says to click on alternate link X. I click there and wait, and wait, and wait. ...same story.

The last two days the hp site was slow enough to be considered GONE for me. But today it's working. That's why I am able to type right now.

Steve Post

[Michael Schulte zur Sur]

Hi,

can someone check this thread:
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=679900

whether it does not belong into the HP-UX forum?

thanks,

Michael

[Brian Markus]

When copying and pasting my message from Microsoft Word, I got an error message after submit. I copied my text from Word into notepad then to the browser, and it seemed to work. It seems that the â character got malformed somehow and caused the post to blow up. Iâ ve never experienced this problem before, are you aware of an issue? (I wouldn't use MS-Word if ITRC had spell check) :)

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[Kimberly Ann]

Hi All,

I appreciate the feedback -- the performance issue is the number 1 priority right now. We are meeting daily to determine a root cause. We have a lot of key people working on it, so I'm hoping this will be resolved soon.

Agree, any closed thread should not bump to the top of the list. Sorry about that one. The lab is working on a fix now and I'm pushing to get something out. Things will get worked out.

Bryan, there is nothing known related to copying and pasting text from MS Word into the reply window and submitting that would cause a failure. Its likely due to the perf. issue we are seeing, or networking problem.

Thanks,
Dan

[Jeff Schussele]

Hi Danno,

I respectfully disagree with you RE Brian's "problem". I see it all the time & it has to do with all the "junk" ctrl codes that Word - or any RTF product like WordPad - inserts into supposedly plain text. That's why when he goes through NotePad - which does use plain ole ASCII text the mistranslation stops. Those codes are ignored & dropped.
Most on the forum are aware of it, but we still see it all the time. I for one will not copy/paste from Word / WordPad & will always use plain ASCII - usually NotePad,

Frankly, I'm not sure just whose problem it is - the forum for not translating the junk codes properly or MicroSlop for jammimg them in there to begin with - why the hell do they need stupid control codes to do an apostrophe? It's in the flippin' ASCII chart for Christ's sake! And lately M$ is doing it more & more to the point of causing incompatibilities between versions of their own Word software. Just shows how stupid they are & how little they care about problems they cause from their stupidity.

Off Soapbox,
Jeff

[charles k. norman]

From a reply above the comment is made above "HP did what we asked: enable us to close a thread". I cannot see where that was asked and would appreciate someone pointing to the thread that identifies the request. I did not ask and nor can I see that others in the forums asked in hords for this. Indeed Pete who keeps the list has said it was not even in his top 10.

There are a number of forums and there does not appear to have been any soundings within the forums. I tend to think that no thread should be able to be closed for say two months. In addition if the thread is closed it should be possible in addition to tag a link to an amending thread. Old threads are not regularly resurected.

One important thing some people forget is that a lot of the posters here will not be experts in the rules and are therefore more likely to close a thread without any explanation. The idea of forums is to keep them simple without layer upon layer of options. They may be fine for the professionals in the forum but frankly a lot of people who post in the forums come once and invariably do not return. Some of them are seemingly oblivious to the points system. I can hardly believe that as a matter of course people will padlock posts having given an explanation of which solution worked. That IMHO is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Pete Randall]

To be fair, Charles, my list is a compilation of only the items that I agree with. There are many suggestions made that don't make it onto my list (it's just not my nature to advocate for something that I don't agree with). I have seen the suggestion about the ability to close a thread in the past, but, since I never agreed with it, I never included it.


Pete

[charles k. norman]

Thank's Pete. I read as follows:-

1) The forum manager said in a reply to TJ Adams "Pete Randell tracks what is still outstanding and usually posts it here each month."

2) You said "I have to question the need for the "close" feature at all"

I obviously concluded incorrectly that the list you post each month was a list of outstanding items proposed by members of the forum. I see now that it is your own personal wish list and not that of the forum. I had taken your answer in the context of 1) and I apologise for that and that it applied inter alia to all issues raised.

Nonetheless I share your view when you say "This, in my opinion, is a feature of questionable merit that was not implemented very well.".

It would be appreciated if you could identify the threads where this has been raised.

[Pete Randall]

I can certainly see why you would think as you did. I believe Dan has come to rely on my list more than I might have thought. In any case, I must repeat, it's only my own collection of suggestions that I happen to agree with.

As far as where the "close" feature has been suggested before, the only way to find them would be to search Dan's issues threads going back for the last year or so. I'll leave that thrilling project to you, if you don't mind.

Regards,

Pete

[charles k. norman]

On the question of enhancements the BSF members, excluding myself, are exceptionally bright in bringing forward ideas. One of the commonly raised points has been the ability to see the messages and the reply on the same page. Thus clicking the reply would give a drop down box to type in the reply and also being able to see the messages at the same time. And in this context it has also been suggested that the reply box should be in preview mode - WYSIWYG. There are a range of other ideas that are not listed in this thread that have not been implemented. Many are desigend to improve the use of the forum and stop the shunt from page to page.

[charles k. norman]

Thank you Pete - it will be a break from the sniffer software project being worked on in my office. I think I may have to go back a bit further as the forum manager said "the closed thread feature was requested by a host of members over the past 18 months.". Perhaps there is a case for an all ideas list or maybe you could kindly extend your list - adding points you do not agree with so the list is comprehensive. Just a thought.

[Kimberly Ann]

Jeff, sorry...what I intended to mention is that any text cut and pasted from MS Word into the forums reply window will cause undesired characters to appear in a message. You've pointed this one out before. What is not known is if it will cause a reply submittal to fail alogether, which is what Bryan was pointing out by the error message. Have you seen this happen?

Thanks,
Dan

[Kent Ostby]

Dan -- The new changes are great especially the lock.

Personally I'd like to have a seperate list under my profile for threads where I've gotten 1 to 7 points and threads where I've gotten no points.

I'd like to have visibility to this.

Thanks,

Kent M. Ostby

[Jeff Schussele]

I guess I'm sorry as well Danno.
I misread that Brian was highlighting a post failure due to character mistranslation.
And no I haven't seen that, but with the spotty perf trouble we've seen recently I'd be more inclined to chalk it up to that.

Best Rgds,
Jeff

[charles k. norman]

If the author wants to indicate that the problem is solved without issuing points then a different Icon could be used to indicate a solution by that means. Any animal suggestions?

[Marlou Everson]

Dan,

Is there any documentation on the bunny besides the icon description on the side of the page? I cannot find anything in the forum FAQs. I would think that it should be mentioned there.

Marlou

[charles k. norman]

Well Pete, I carried out what you described as a thrilling project and the result could be counted on my hands - always provided the datamining procedure was correct. That is hardly a host of people requesting the new feature. Indeed over here the commonly undestood meaning of host in the context used would mean a great number; a multitude. That is not evident in the source you suggested I search. In fact if I was to do a tally by points for those who have not been wholly in favour compared with those wholly in favour then the points tally against exceeds the points tally in favour.

It was not all one way and indeed there was a request for a time interval for threads to remain open. I liked this comment by SEP in response to MS for a close thread:-
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If the extraneous posts are worthless, assign them zero points, that will maintain your assignment percentage.

If I want no further posts in a thread, I post back saying its closed, warning zero points for further input.

I rarely do that, because sometimes there is valuable input even after solution.
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In fact the number of people raising the issue of a closed thread whether in favour or against in the forum is less than 2% of the listed members. Thus in fact a very small minority requested the close thread feature and not a host of people. Nothing I read from following up your suggestion deterred me from sharing your view that this is a feature of questionable merit that has not been implemented very well. With respect I suggest this purported enhancement is now subject to an immediate review across the whole of the forums.

[Kimberly Ann]

Hi Marlou,

Good question, and the answer is no there is no further description of the bunny icon in the FAQs. I'll keep that on the to-do list, thanks for the idea.

-Dan