vPars software on SD2 servers

[Torsten.]

Dear all,

I'm looking for some individual opinions.

What do you think are the pros and cons about installing vPars software on a SuperDome 2 server?

As of today I don't see any need or benefit in doing so, but according to the version 5.07 release notes there are some enhancements for this platform included (without details).

What do you think?

Any experiences so far?

[Torsten.]

I doubt if this is clear enough, so here is the corrected question again:


What do you think are the pros and cons about installing vPars software on a SuperDome 2 servers virtual partition?

[Alzhy]

"What do you think are the pros and cons about installing vPars software on a SuperDome 2 servers virtual partition"

Hmmm, you mean simply "What are the Pros and Cons of using vPars on a SuperDome2 nPar" right?

Pros:
1.) vPars allow you to host OE environments that allows for dynamic memory and CPU allocations
2.) it could allow (depending on your ecosystem) to exact the last drop of performance out of your expensive 'Dome
3.) it allows you to set up OEs/servers where no one has any idea at all on what CPU and Mem and I/O demands your Apps may need
4.) allows your ecosystem to have a mega-sized environment to handle those "what ifs", end of month, etc processing - ON THE FLY. On our 'Dome, our vPars can grow from a few CPUs to encompass the entire CPUs available for month end processing.


CONS:
1.) vPars exact some overhead and is not as fast as a pure physical/nPar/server
2.) you could be bitten by a flaw/bug in vpmon/vpars layer that will render your vPars down accross the board.

So there ya go... if you trust your Dome as having no SPOF and trust vPars software as totally bug free -- then dive into it as your slice 'n dice solution.

WE have been using it since version 1.0 with great success. We sure had our sad days but overall -- it increased our ROI and utilisation of our 'Domes which translated to $$ savings.

Of course these days, we've shifted to Linux on X86 SmartIrons running High Availability Hypervisors so we have the highest availability at a lesser cost.

[Joe Ledesma]

@Alzhy:
Regarding:
> Linux on X86
--and:
> SmartIrons running High Availability Hypervisors
--What version/product(s) is this?

[Torsten.]

>> you mean simply "What are the Pros and Cons of using vPars on a SuperDome2 nPar" right?


No.

The SD2 can do vPars without vPars software, because the vpmon is in firmware and no longer needed in the OS.

If you are familiar with the hardware and first release firmware, you know about the current limitations.

I'm asking this question because you can do vPars on "pure hardware" without vPars software on this platform.

[Turgay Cavdar]

Hi Torsten,

>>The SD2 can do vPars without vPars software, because the vpmon is in firmware and no longer needed in the OS.

Are you sure that SD2 can do vPars without vPars software? What i understand is OS still needs vPar software to boot.

[Torsten.]

>> Are you sure that SD2 can do vPars without vPars software?

Yes.
The vpmon and vpdb are not needed at all.

[Alzhy]

Torsten

You're correct.. I thought with SD2 you ment the SX2000 based chipset Superdomes (Merced/Montecitos)... So you are referring to the C7000 (PC_like/commoditized) SuperDome...

I woulld still believe the points I made stands. If the vPars layer is now in firmware -- the issues and pros and cons that I mention remain.

[Alzhy]

And to Joseph:

"@Alzhy:
Regarding:
> Linux on X86
--and:
> SmartIrons running High Availability Hypervisors
--What version/product(s) is this?
"

HP: Proliant 4 socket and 8 socket Nehalem or Magny Cour systems. (DL5XX, DL 7XXX and DL9XX Series). Other vendors also have the same offerings. HP also has Blade Proliants that plug in to the same C7000 Enclosure as these Integrity Itaniu servers.

Why I call these new X86-64 based servers Smart Irons? Because they simply are your smartest choices for performance, TCO and RAS these days. If you look at the TPC (www.tpc.org) and various benchmarks - you will notice that ever since the new quad and octo and 12 core CPUs frpm the PC Server arena were launched not too long ago - X86 Servers are now toe to toe with their expensive RISC based UNIX Server cousins. Prior to these SmartIron systems - you would not see any X86 based servers in those benchmarks as most were dominated by Big UNIX.

And with LINUX running things in these SMartIrons and your choice of High Availabilty Virtualization (vSPhere or KVM/RHEV) - your Linux, Solaris, BSD and Windows virtual servers can see very high availability indeed at a fraction of the cost of their UNIX big brothers. Performance wise? Well that's an entirely different topic but you can figure it out yourself...

;^))

[Torsten.]

@Alzhy: Thanks for your comments, but the question is not about vPars in general.

I'm working for more than 10 years now with vpars, since version 1.02. The first systems with vPars I worked with was the Yosemite based first generation superdome and the L3000/N4000.


The SD2 (sx3000 based superdome blade) has all the vpars commands (vparcreate, vparmodify, etc) in OA, the vpdb is also stored on OA, so a vPar in a SD2 is more like a classic nPar than a classic vpar.



So my question is:
What is the benefit to have vPars software installed in a SD2 vPar?

[Alzhy]

1. You get finer grained sub-blade/sysboard slice and dice - if you need an OE/server that needs to be built outside of an nPar config.

2. The ABILITY to on the fly increase/decrease CPU and memory


I see an nPar can be booted as a vPar in vPars 5.X on an SD2 -- If the above are still not possible with nPars, then those 2 above should still be valid enough reason to have vPars on thine expensive SD2 sir... It doues use vConnect HW as the Proliants right?

[Alzhy]

A 3rd one perhaps would be it allows your SD2 to have more robust OE footprints than what is allowed via nPars or even HPVMs?


Whoa -- your account it seems have deep pockets and a well entrenced HP-UX Orgy. Kudos! Hope you are still able to avoid X86 evangelists ;^)

[Torsten.]

>> 2. The ABILITY to on the fly increase/decrease CPU and memory


You don't know the first firmware release on SD2, right?


However, we will use vPars anyway, but I want to know if I should install vPars software on this SD2 vPar (yes, vPar) or not ...

[Torsten.]

... FYI: a vPar in a SD2 has a own console now, even with EFI shell access. So its really like a "classic" nPar, more or less (if you also keep the current limitations of first release firmware in mind).

[Alzhy]

>> 2. The ABILITY to on the fly increase/decrease CPU and memory


You don't know the first firmware release on SD2, right?

Nope. We caught early on that very expensive Itanic3 systems clothed in Proliant Garb is sanely possible with our budget once X86-64/Linux/vSphere/KVM alternatives were out.

So are you saying with nPars it is now possible to dynamcially allocate CPU, Memory and maybe even IO busses?

[Torsten.]

The

HP Superdome 2 Partitioning Administrator
Guide
HP-UX 11i v3

says

"Any modification to a vPar can be done only when the vPar is in the â Downâ state."


"any" means here CPU, I/O and memory too at this time.

[Alzhy]

Then there is your SOLID enough rationale for implementating (?) vPars good sir.. aside from other compelling reasons ap for thine ROI on thine expensive 'Dome2.

Enjoy your Itanic3 boxen clad in Proliant clothing!

;^))

[Dennis Handly]

>Alzhy: Enjoy your Itanic3 boxen clad in Proliant clothing!

That's called Converged Infrastructure.

[Alzhy]

yes Dennis, been on several overhead projector events.

good food and ambience though.

[Torsten.]

Thanks so far.


The vPars A.05.07 Release Notes say

"For more details about partitioning information on HP Superdome2, see the HP Superdome 2 Partitioning Release Notes ..."

but there is a "HP Superdome2 Administrator Guide" only, no release notes!

[Torsten.]

My question is not answered yet, but I can share some experiences for those who are interested in.


While configuring vPars on the superdome 2 the keyword "cpu" has sometimes changed to "core" - always read the help!

IMHO the best way to configure I/O slots is the enclosure/bay/slot notation, e.g.

# vparmodify -p 1:1 -a ioslot:9/1/1

assigns the most left slot (rear view) in enclosure 9, this is enc9/bay1(=left bay)/slot1

For getting the resources on the blade itself the following command is useful:

OA> parstatus -c 1/3 -V

it delivers

...
[IO Details]


RP Path Slot Slot Type Status
=========== ========= ========== =======
1/3/0/0/0 1/3/4 Lan OK
1/3/0/0/2 1/3/5 Lan OK
1/3/0/1/0 1/3/1 Mez OK
1/3/0/1/2 1/3/2 Mez OK
1/3/0/2/0 1/3/3 Mez OK
1/3/0/2/2 1/3/6 VGA/USB OK
1/3/0/2/3 1/3/7 iLO3 OK

...


so you can assign and use the components once they are all supported.


It looks like the DVD assignment from GUI does not always work properly, so better use the CLI:

OA> set partition 1:1 dvd connect

this will assign the internal DVD to vPar 1 in nPar 1 if a medium is loaded.



I hope this helps in future - have fun!

[Torsten.]

I took a chance to play around with the hardware.
It looks like the vpar related set of commands is different to other hardware.

For example the man page of vparstatus says

"...
vparstatus2(1M) For OA Based Partition Management Systems vparstatus2(1M)
...
Platform Support Remarks

This vparstatus describes functionality on systems with Onboard Administrator (OA) based partition management. For vparstatus on systems not running OA based partition management, refer to vparstatus1(1M) by typing man vparstatus1.
..."

So I think the OS commands are simply forwarded to the OA more or less and since online changes are currently very limited, the vPar can run without vPars software.

But to be prepared for the (hopefully near) future we decided to install the software anyway.

[KathyL1]

>> I want to know if I should install vPars software on this SD2 vPar (yes, vPar) or not ...

I discovered this thread while attending the SD2 Administration course (HK713S) and found the following information relating to Virtual Partitions in the student guide (see attached):

On page 3-14:
Virtual partitions (vPars)
- Configuration of cores, memory and I/O reserved from a single nPartition
- Firmware implementation â No additional software required
- Provide the same features and resource granularity as the software-based virtual partitions on previous HP cell-based servers


On page 3-61:
Superdome 2 does not specifically require licensed vPars software on the OS, but if that licensed (purchased) SW is not present, vPars configuration and control can only be performed from the OA, and not from a running partition.

And finally the very interesting statement on the following page (page 3-62):
Though vPars can be created from the OA without purchasing a vPar license, HP does not support such configurations. Attempting to boot HP-UX in a vPar without purchasing a vPar license can cause unpredictable behavior and should be avoided.


So, it seems that HP hasn't yet made up it's collective mind about whether or not vPar software MUST be purchased for vPars on the SD2. According to the training course material no additional vPars software or vPar software licenses are REQUIRED but HP does not support vPars created from the OA without a vPar license. Go figure!!

Kathy

[Torsten.]

Thank you Kathy for your comments.

Somehow I think vpars for SD2 is developed by a totally different department within HP than the other vPars software (not really talking to each other?), so at least the documentation ignores the other party completely.

Grep the SD2 docs for vPars software or the vPars guide for SD2 - you will get no useful hit.

So there is still room for improvement on both, documentation and SD2 firmware ... ;-)

[KathyL1 · Accepted solution]

It seems HP have made their mind up after all ...

We are just about to order an SD2 which will be configured with vPars and HP have advised that the vPars will NOT be supported unless vPars software is also purchased.

This is despite the fact we will not have ANY need to configure or manage the vPars via the OS.