will there be problems to run a production on a platform without any vendor support?

[Hanry Zhou]

I know of a user, his company is planing to run a production on a N class server with hpux 11.0 version.

They used to have HP support on these servers, however, since applications have gone, they no longer need support. Now, something else come up, they thought they could utlize these servers without pay any extra money. What they have now is the HPUX 11.0 CD.

I told them that HP would not have any new patches for HPUX 11.0, but they already have the most updated patch, and they don't care.

Would that be a good idea to do that, and how should he pursue the management not to implement the production on a not supported platform?

Thanks for your inputs.

[Pete Randall · Accepted solution]

Hardware support or software? There may not be a problem if nothing changes. However, if anything in the application changes or there is a hardware failure of any sort, all bets are off. Say a disk drive fails and they have to replace it with a more current, perhaps larger version with different firmware?

The answer is basically that if nothing breaks they should be just fine, but . . . .

It's called gambling.


Pete

[Jupinder Bedi]

I dont think so its an good idea for the production support on hpux 11.0 but if it is very small organisation than you can go a head

[TTr]

It is not a good idea but what are the alternatives? They would have to spend significant $$ for an N4000 replacement, maybe an rx3600/rx6600, assuming the app runs on itanium 11.23/11.31.

There are many 11.00 environments out there running fine. And if the application is well behaved, an 11.00 environment can be very stable without any support. I would be more concerned about hardware support on the N4000 and less about support on the HP-UX 11.00.

[Torsten.]

If software or hardware breaks - production is stopped - now what???
Wait one week or longer until someone finds a solution (or a new server or whatever)?

[Rita C Workman]

When mgmt makes certain decisions there is little to nothing you can do, other than covering yourself.

So, get it in writing, so when something happens - and it always does - you are not the one they hang the decision on. Seriously, get it in writing!

Also, who said HP was the only support company out there. There are others who may provide something (anything) to support the ver 11.0 at least for software. Markets are tuff, some smaller providers may be willing to taken on older platforms. Check around & start searching.
You know....you might come off a hero if you find one for a good price ....

Rgrds,
Rita

[Pete Randall]

To continue along Torsten's train of thought:

Perhaps you could present it to management as a cost/benefit analysis. Present a realistic estimate of how much time it would take to bring the systems back from scratch and then ask management if they can live without their production system for that amount of time - what will it cost them to be without.


Pete

[Bill Hassell]

There are numerous sites that run 10.20 in a production environment, so 11.00 is certainly a possibility. The risks are easy to categorize.

First, if they have an 11.00 CD, they are severely crippled if they have to reinstall because they have no Ignite backup tapes. 11.00 Install CDs and Applications CDs and Update CDs are not available. Without Ignite backups, their system is just waiting to fail with no possible recovery.

Secondly, how many calls have they placed to HP to obtain undocumented information or to get a special patch to make their system work properly? There are several vendors who will provide answers to questions for 10.00, 10.10, 10.20 and 11.00 and even provide workarounds for problems without a patch.

The final question is: how important is this production server? If it goes down and they can't fix it, what is the cost to the company? The customer may be quite surprised at how expensive a failure can be with no place to turn for help.

I would strongly recommend an alternate support service just so there is some expertise available when needed.

[Steven Schweda]

Why does anyone _ever_ buy vendor support?
It's needed only when something goes wrong.
How likely is that? (And what are the
possible consequences? And their costs?)

[Tingli]

Two supports, software and hardware.

Nowadays, you can find software support from web, such as this forum. This is ok and sometimes might be less painful than HP support.

It is better to hardware support as if something goes down you will spend a lot to fix it. But if you have several same servers, you can keep one for spare parts. As far as you don't mind doing it yourself. You might make it too.

Of course, it is best to have the company to pay some dollars for the support.

[Torsten.]

Imaging this: Your software depends on a software ID, the servers system board is dead and you need a replacement. Only HP can adjust this value. Nobody else can. Even a bunch of spare servers will be useless.

[dirk dierickx]

will there be problems to run a production on a platform without any vendor support? yes

Would that be a good idea to do that? no

and how should he pursue the management not to implement the production on a not supported platform?

depending on the size of your corp, but i suggest to play the blame game. you have to make them clear that for _any_ problem, sw or hw nobody is available for help. if they ordered their employees to use this machine then it's their on ass on the line if it goes wrong.

also make clear that loading all currently available patches doesn't mean the software won't contain bugs anymore, certainly security wise this is a big issue. and no way to fix the holes either.

if they have no money, or very little, they're better off selling the N class for scraps and buying a cheap intel box with linux on it for the money.
i read there are no apps on it anymore so there is no issue with a certain progam not working anymore. and you'll have a recent OS, with updates, HW under support which is at least as powerfull as your dated n class piece-o-junk.

[Jupinder Bedi]

dont go for production support on the platform which is out of support . if any goes wrong nobody will fix it . you can use as test box.

[Tingli]

If you go to support, it is very expensive as they are old machines and you would rather buy new one with warranty.

[Gordon Sjodin]

In the past I have seen companies get burnt by paying very high prices for old compatable hardware. If an old production system goes down you may need the parts quickly and for some of this old stuff you can pay through the nose for it compared to what you could buy today for the same money.

ie. $4000 for a 4 gig disk drive.

[Michael Steele_2]

Why don't you give points to people? Why? It's come up before in your 2000 questions to the forum. Why?

[Steven Schweda]

> Why don't you give points to people?

Why do you care?

[Alex Mantelos_1]

Hello,

May I add some more comments?

a) If you work for a publicly-listed company,
remind your top managers and the board of
directors that they are PERSONALLY liable for
ensuring the business is protected.

After all, it is not their money they are
"saving".

b) Give them a scenario of projected costs
to fix the obsolete hardware and software if
problems occur.

Two years ago, I learnt about a disaster
recovery for a company in Australia
which used HP-UX 10.0. They had such an old
type of server that they were forced to
purchase 1 (or was it 2 GB?) disk drives on
Ebay for more than 10,000 AUD apiece. Somebody figured out they
could "blackmail" them for hardware. When
people let themselves be taken for a ride...
Not that I condone this kind of rip-offs,
but that is the reality of what can happen.

In short, DOCUMENT that your warnings
were ignored and sit back and enjoy.

Never worry about things you cannot change.

VK2COT