File version limits on NTP log files

[Donald Hill]

I have set version limits on our NTP log files (SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP] TCPIP$NTP_RUN.LOG ) to keep them manageable but get unexpected results. The files stop being generated after exceeding the version limit rather than the expected operation of removing the oldest files exceeding the version limit. Is this normal or am I missing something? I am running NTP using TCP/IP Version 5.3 –ECO2 on VMS 7.3-1 although I have seen it on other versions including I believe 5.4. on VMS 7.3-2 (I had purged the files a couple of weeks ago so cannot confirm)

Don

[Garry Fruth]

I suspect the username TCPIP$NTP needs delete access to the file. Ensure that the file is owned by TCPIP$NTP and has O:D access. If you are auditing for file delete access failures, you could also try using REPLY/ENABLE=SECURITY and then restart NTP and see if you get an error.

[Wim Van den Wyngaert]

Don,

The version limit protects you agains too many version of a file. There is no protection against reaching the maximum version. The only thing you can do is delete/rename the file(s), depending on its usage.

Some software will stop working when the maximum version is reached, some will simply not write output if the open fails. Your NTP is in the 2nd group.

Wim

[Jan van den Ende]

Don,

reading Garry & Wim, at least it is clear that your question is not clear.

Is your trouble: A> with .LOG files versions exceeding 32767, or B> is the problem that you have /VERSION=x, and there are more than x files?

If A>, Wim ' s answer applies, if B> then see Garry.

hth,

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

[Ian Miller.]

"The files stop being generated after exceeding the version limit rather than the expected operation of removing the oldest files exceeding the version limit. Is this normal or am I missing something? "

Its normal. Some people create a file with the highest version number just to prevent creation of log files.

[Donald Hill]

Gary,Win, Jan, Ian I apologize for not stating my question more clearly. WRT Janâ s response, it is B. I have used SET FILE/VERSION=x to set a version limit. WRT Garyâ s response, the configuration of TCP/IP using TCPIP_CONFIG.COM created the directory structure and the log files in question along with ownership and protections and as such, I trust that they are correct. From a DIR/FULL on one of the log files gives

Owner: [TCPIP$AUX,TCPIP$NTP]
File protection: System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:

which seems reasonable.
Correct me if I am mistaken but as I read Ianâ s and Wimâ s responses, they took my question as if I had reached the maximum version limit of a VMS file of 32767 which is not what I was meaning.

To restate my question, I have used SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT=20 on the NTP log file
SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP_RUN.LOG;922
after temporally disabling NTP so as to release the file. After restarting NTP, a new log file gets created each day for 20 days (file version limit =20) and thereafter, no more log files are created even though NTP is still running. (In operation, NTP automatically opens a new log file each day to record its status each reporting period.of that 24 hour day)

I have attached a copy of a DIR/DATE output showing the files, versions number and date illustrating my question.

I will not be viewing responses tomorrow as it is Canada Day our national Birthday so any questions will be answered Monday.

[Karl Rohwedder]

Donald,

are you restarting NTP every day? On all of our systems, NTP does NOT create a new logfile every day.
A version limit on a file does NOT prevent the creation of a new version, if reached. Instead the oldest is deleted and a new version created, so that exact N versions are present.

regards Kalle

[Keith_169 · Accepted solution]

While doing purges on our system, I have noticed that ntp appears to keep the first log file open (for the process?), then create a new file every day for the regular program output.
Since the first file can't be deleted because it's open, this could be preventing the version
limit from working as expected.

[Garry Fruth]

I checked our system, and as Keith observed, the lowest version number file was open as well as the highest version number. This appears to prevent a new file from being created; but IMHO it shouldn't. You could report this to HP.

I tried to simulate the behavior using simple DCL commands: OPEN/APPEND holding the lowest version numbered file open; COPY NL: to create a new version of the file. I'm not happy with what I observed. I attached the output. IMHO this also should be reported to HP.

[Donald Hill]

Kalle- I am not restarting NTP each day. This is something our versions of NTP (TCPIP V5.3 and V5.4) do on their own. I in fact believe it occurred in previous versions as well although I cannot verify this. I have noticed this behavior for some years but have not in past felt it worth a trouble call to HP. I have just started looking at the "HP forms" and thought this might be an ideal vehicle to answer a behavior that has puzzled me for a number of years.

Keith- I think you have answered the problem. I did check and found as you and Gary did that the first version is still open.

Gary, your simulation of the behavior is very interesting. When is "not copied" really copied :-). As stated above, in past I have not felt it worth calling HP but I think the next time I do log a trouble call, I will include this and Gary's example as well

Thanks all
Don

[comarow]

Even if it automatically purges files, the version limit will go up. Either you'll need to manually reset to version one, delete to 0 versions, or run a com procedure,

Purging reduces number of files, not the version limit.

[Antoniov.]

Don,
in my experience version limit purges files. In your report log fileshave version from 922 to 941 that's exactly 20 files.
Excecuting SHO DEV /FILE you could see if and what processes keep file opened.

Antonio Vigliotti

[Donald Hill]

Antonio
As I reported in my response to Keith and Gary yesterday, I to like they had reported, had found a NTP process (TCPIP$NTP_1 to be precise) kept the first log file open as shown by SHO DEV/FILE. As such,Gary's suggestion seems to answer my question.

The question I would have now is why does NTP keep the first log file open. I think this is a question for HP, is it a fault or part of their design?

Thanks
Don