how to make a bootable tape in OpenVMS

[Jeff Hoevenaar]

How can I create a bootable OS tape in OpenVMS.

[Uwe Zessin]

Last time I checked there was no way to create a bootable tape on OpenVMS Alpha (it is possible for Tru64 Unix). You can either boot from a binary CD-ROM or you can put a small system on another disk. If i recall correctly, the procedure is SYS$SYSTEM:AXPMS$PCSI_INSTALL_MIN.COM

On OpenVMS VAX you can boot from CD-ROM, too. I beleive you have to use root [SYS2] to get to the DCL prompt. You can create a small system just for backup on another disk and you can create a bootable tape, too. The procedure for the last both is, if I recall correctly: SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT.COM

[Antoniov.]

Hello,
my mind remember STABACKIT.COM but also I remember somenthink about STABACKIT doesn't work on alpha.

@Antoniov

[John Eerenberg]

> How can I create a bootable OS tape in OpenVMS.
The short answer is no, it can't be done.

Here are the alternatives:

Since all legal hardware configurations of Alpha OpenVMS have a CD-ROM, boot from the OpenVMS Binaries CD. When it boots, it will look like you are installing OpenVMS but don't worry about that. Instead select the DCL option. You will have enough driver support to load/restore from disk/tape.

Just like tape would be, the CD-ROM is easily/safely transported to any system and can be duplicated.

For a functional equivalent on a locally attached disk, use @sys$system:axpvms$pcsi_install_min.com

john

[Ian Miller.]

note pcsi_install_min on to another disk gives a min vms system same as booting a VMS Alpha install disk and selecting option for executing DCL commands and procedures.

[Uwe Zessin]

Yes, it 'works' on Alpha - see attachment ;-)

[Uwe Zessin]

John,

> You will have enough driver support to load/restore from disk/tape.

That is wishful thinking. I have seen several problems in the past where the CD was no longer 'good' enough.

Last example: I have built on OpenVMS Alpha Cluster with V7.3-1 (-2 wasn't ready) and an MSA1000 storage array at firmware revision 4.24. Guess what: a booted OS from the naked V7.3-1 CD could not access the LUNs on the MSA! We had no problem, because the customer wanted to have the system disks in the servers anyway.

[Martin P.J. Zinser]

Hello,

if we are talking VAX STABACKIT is the way to go if you <> want to do a bootable tape. There is no way to do one on Alpha (and to the best of my knowledge there will be none on Itanium either ;-)

Having said that and as someone who remembers booting and installing from tape much too well, for all situations I did encounter booting from CD is much more convenient than from tape. Even better is to copy the boot CD to a spare storageworks disk and then boot of that disk. Doing it that way you might even be able to add in the drivers for the MSA1000 ;-) Putting the stuff on a separate storageworks disk has the advantage that you can move it around easily as opposed to a mini installation on the system disk.

Greetings, Martin

[Lokesh_2]

A question - why you want to make bootable tape ?

[Sheldon Smith]

Even if you COULD get it to work, adding a CDROM would be cheaper than the aggravation you will have from: 1) getting the system to boot off of tape, and 2) WAITing for the system to boot off of tape.
With the old MicroVAX systems (which DID support booting from tape), it took the better part of an hour (40 to 50 minutes?) for the system to boot from tape.

[Uwe Zessin]

Standalone backup from a TK-70 tape drive on a MicroVAX-3400 took about 10 minutes. Booting via disk was much faster, but it didn't work on V5.2 or 5.3 (a software bug)

I was glad that I tested it before, because I once was messing with a system disk in one of your outposts and produced an unbootable system! I asked the operator to give me the SA-backup tape.

When I was answered with a helpless face I told him to give me an empty tape. Then, during creating I explained to him what this tape was about.

Phewww. Sometimes it really pays being paranoid.

[John Eerenberg]

Uwe,

> "That is wishful thinking."

I couldn't disagree more. You may not understand what a legal Alpha VMS configuration is and why it is. This is not a knock on you; the GS1280 documentation (for example, but other Alpha systems, such as a DS10, can illustrate the point) is clear on *what* a legal configuration is but does not tell you *why*.

You have gone from the general discussion of a bootable CD-ROM to the specifics of fibre channel and bootable CD-ROMâ s.

> "I have seen several problems in the past where the CD was no longer 'good' enough."

If you have seen problems, consider that you may not have a legal configuration.

> "Last example: I have built on OpenVMS Alpha Cluster with V7.3-1 (-2 wasn't ready) and an MSA1000 storage array at firmware revision 4.24. Guess what: a booted OS from the naked V7.3-1 CD could not access the LUNs on the MSA!"

Were you trying to build a fibre channel â onlyâ environment, but didnâ t use the required locally attached disk? The legal Alpha VMS configuration for fibre channel environments states that you must have at least one locally attached SCSI disk (on a GS1280 for example, a DS10 has IDE as a legal configuration if SCSI is not desired â I don't have experience with IDE based systems, but they should work they same way). By your own statement, you seem to have a legal configuration but may not have understood why the system had one (or more) disks in the server itself.

In a legal fibre channel Alpha VMS system (a GS1280 for example), one boots from the CD, loads one's system disk (or builds a new system disk depending on the situation) to the locally attached disk, boots from the locally attached disk, applies patches if required, and performs the requisite load/restore from disk/tape (i.e., a MSA1000).

The fibre channel environment is a special case of bootable CD-ROMs. The reasons for this are sensible and as such are fairly obvious but one overlooked reason is a â naked V7.3-1 CD.â The VMS binaries CDâ s do not get reissued with patches. During a "clean" install, often one needs to apply fibre channel related patches to the system disk before restoring everything else; hence, the locally attached disk.

> "We had no problem, because the customer wanted to have the system disks in the servers anyway."
Unless you volume shadow the system disk on separate SCSI channels, on separate PCI channels, etc., you have a single point of failure.
Personal opinion: It is better to go into the Alpha console, run WWIDMGR, configure 1 to 4 LUNs with its attendant paths, and get the system disk into an environment that has the hardware protection and redundancy of the controller. For a cluster, the benefits of sharing the system disk on your MSA1000 are obvious (on the otherhand, I realize one may choose not to do so for a variety of reasons).

Partitioning and stretch clusters require additional details to create a legal configuration, but the concept is the same: a bootable CD-ROM will restore the entire system regardless of which controller technology you use.

Fibre channel is more complicated, granted, but the benefits, IMHO, far outweigh the hassle of restoring via a locally attached s

[Rick Dyson]

Curiously, I have used the Mini PCI VMS install to local hard drives for safety and performance (vs. CD) for any stand-alone backup needs on many different Alpha VMS boxes for the past few years. It beats booting off a CD!

Today I ran into one that seems to immediately go into a loop and fit when trying to install to an empty RZ28 I have on the local SCSI bus. It is an AlphaServer 2000 with OpenVMS v7.3-1. The RZ28 is empty, ODS-2, just init only. I mounted it locally to SYSTEM's process and ran the install. It prompts for the device to use, I spell it out explicitly (i.e., $1$DKA200:) and it never returns. Another session shows it's drawing 100% of the CPU for as long as I have let it run (20 minutes?).

Any ideas? I have never seen this one before.

rick

[Ian Miller.]

Rick, can I suggest you start a new thread and supply more detail. On what sort of SCSI interface is the RZ28? Is the RZ28 internal to the Alpha or in a expanion cab of some sort. Is the firmware current on the alphaserver?