Newbie to VMS !!! Help me

[Antoniov.]

I remember when vms become openvms but I can't remember the exact version.
I guess openvms was added a bite for time, so it could appear in some utility before some other.

Jan, Uwe,
you can taste, for example, the evolution display byte instead page. Guy wrote will be avaiable full support since V8.2 but since now you can see some command with bytes and kb.
You are both very expert in vms and it's no sense still write about (open)vms that is not yet really open.

Cheer to both
Antonio Vigliotti

[Uwe Zessin]

Hello Antonio,
the 'marketing name change' was around V5.5, the first version that supported POSIX. The boot banner (and other output like 'SHOW SYSTEM' - I think 'OpenVMS' is stored in a global cell) was changed with V6.0.

I don't know if Alpha Versions 1.0 and 1.5 claimed to be 'Open'. V1.0 was a fork-off of VAX/VMS version 5.4-something.


The 'Open' is supposed to show compliance of VMS with many standards - is has absolutely nothing to do with 'open source', rather with 'open systems' (=Unix-based systems). I don't recall that the phrase 'open source' even existed at that time (1992).

[Doug Phillips]

IIRC, the Open Software Foundation (OSF)owned the Unix name at that time and that organization was in charge of certifying whether or not an OS conformed to the Portable Operating System Interface (POSIX) standard. When VMS's passed the test, DEC decided to add the Open. I guess they could have paid a fee and called it VMS-UNIX if they wanted, but that would have certainly confused the issue.;-)

Doug

[Keith Parris]

It was X/Open which defined the XPG4 specification. OSF was formed as a defense against and in opposition to UNIX International, which had been formed jointly by AT&T and Sun. (X/Open is now part of The Open Group.)

In a quick Google search I found a good history and timeline at http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix/history_timeline.html

[Antoniov.]

And don't forget, OpenVms has now the command pipe in full unix style.

Antonio Vigliotti

[Martin Vorlaender]

Uwe wrote:
>>>
I don't know if Alpha Versions 1.0 and 1.5 claimed to be 'Open'.
<<<

Just recently I found an original CD labeled

OpenVMS(TM) AXP(TM) Operation System V1.5
Software and Documentation
May 1993

cu,
Martin

[Jan van den Ende]

Antonio,


And don't forget, OpenVms has now the command pipe in full unix style.


Wish that were really true!
Then we wouldn't have to add the PIPE command at the start of a line each time.

I don't remember where, but I seem to remember having seen a discussion with Guy Peleg on just that. In principle, the occurrence of a pipe "|" character could be located by the parser, and invoke Piping. But there are also other characters that govern piping ( redirection comes to mind immideataly, but there is more). All in all, looks like PIPE as a necessary command for piping is here to stay for some time.

Jan

[Antoniov.]

Jan,
you are right :-)
but for an unix man, the command PIPE can help for his working.
For example, Vms has input/output redirector for most command so a vms expert write
$ DIR/OUT=myfile
while a unix man can write
$ PIPE DIR > myfile

I've seen my coworker (unix man) has yet not feeling with DCL; I suppose he kwnow vms since a few time.

Antonio Vigliotti

[Doug Phillips]

Keith,

Thanks for the link and sorry for the misremembrance. Yes, it was X/Open at that time and OSF merged with X/Open later on to become the Open Group.

Doug

[Antoniov.]

Hi,
searching for some things about internet, casually I met this vms history page about vms and openvms of microsoft research
http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/software.htm
M$ wrote DEC annunced its commintment to Open standard in October 1990 and in same month shipped V5.4 of vms/open vms.
In novembre 1995 shipped V5.5.
This is just for curiosity.

Cheers
Antonio Vigliotti

[Uwe Zessin]

It is not Microsoft, but Gordon Bell, who wrote it and it is inconsistent with the timeline URL I posted on 6-AUG. My own experience confirmes the correctness of that URL and not Bell's.

Let's take a look into history...
http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=0095B32C.D237E860%40MV3600.BMEN.TULANE.EDU&output=gplain

[Antoniov.]

Uwe,
I don't understand your last link :-?

Antonio Vigliotti

[Uwe Zessin]

POSIX V1.0 was available for VMS V5.5, not V5.4.

[Antoniov.]

Ok Uwe,
You are right: posix in V5.5. I guess dec managers gave out the open idea before implementation; they called OpenVms the V5.4 (shipped in the same date of open announce) without vms weren't really open. In my mind they did want a commercial notice not technical implementation release with V5.5
May be I am not right.

Cheers
Antonio Vigliotti

[Jan van den Ende]

Uwe,


POSIX V1.0 was available for VMS V5.5, not V5.4.


Yes, I buy that.
But, IMMSMW, between 5.4 & 5.5 there were 5.4-1, 5.4-2, & 5.4-3.
And I have a pretty definite memory of the V5.4-3 installation, and THAT being the Posix intro & VMS => OpenVMS rename.

(and I do remember, because we had an in-house training which I didn't like, but was appointed to attend, and they considered me undisciplinary because of going out and checking the upgrade.
Well - there was one issue in V5.4-2 that was solved in 5.4-3, and in the end some users had to tell management that in their view I had done the right thing by helping them with their problem, which WAS defined as my primary task.)

All in all - it DID make a lasting impression.


Jan