Performance Data Collector (TDC) Tool V2.1 on OpenVMS 7.3-2

[Dane Dupuy]

Does anyone know if the OpemVMS Performance
Data Collector Tool (TDC) V2.1 requires a
reboot after installation on an OpenVMS
V7.3-2 Alpha system?

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/tdc/

[Arch_Muthiah]

Dane,
I guess it is not required to reboot the VMS system after installtion. even if you update TDC 2.1 patches required for OpenVMS 7.3-2, reboot is not required.

To start TDC either you can execute this @sys$startup:tdc$startup.com from command prompt or add this line in your systartup_vms file.

Archunan

[Karl Rohwedder]

Dane,

pls. note, that there is already V2.2 available.

regards kalle

[Volker Halle]

Dane,

welcome to the OpenVMS ITRC forum.

None of the TDC installation guides mention a reboot, even if you upgrade to a newer version.

I have updated from a running TDC_RT V2.1-69 to TDC V2.1-84 without a reboot on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2.

When running TDC, consider to use SYS$COMMON:TDC$DELETE_LOGS.TEMPLATE to clean up the daily TDC$*.LOG and TDC$*.COM files left lying around in SYS$MANAGER.

Volker.

[Volker Halle]

Kalle,

I've installed TDC V2.2-102 on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 and it's causing reproducable INVEXCEPTN crashes in the TDC_POLL process.

Are you actually running TDC V2.2-102 yet ?

Volker.

[Volker Halle]

TYPO warning: should be TDC V2.2-105

Sorry,

Volker.

[Karl Rohwedder]

Volker,

we are running here TDC V2.2-105 on a bunch of Alphas running VMS vesion 7.3-2, 8.2 and F8.3 (image ident is TDC-V0202-20105), all without crashes.

regards Kalle

[Volker Halle]

Kalle,

my OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 system crashes, as soon as TDC$MANAGER.COM starts the TDC_POLL process - so it may be configuration dependant. The same system worked fine with V2.1-084 before...

What kind of TDC data do you collect with which procedure/command ?

Volker.

[Ian Miller.]

If you ECP V5.5A then you have to use TDC V2.1.
If you use OpenView® Performance Agent for OpenVMS then you have to use TDC V2.2.

I don't think a reboot is required.

Volker, what hp say about the crash with TDC V2.2 ?

[Volker Halle]

Ian,

the question of version compatibility between TDC and ECP is not quite clear. The TDC home page seems to indiciate, that you need to use TDC V2.1 with ECP V5.5A (or does it mean AT LEAST V2.1 ?!).

The ECP page says:

The ECP Analyzer can process files created by Version 2.1 and later of the Performance Data Collector.

So there is room for interpretation !

Regarding HP's answer: this is just a new call opened yesterday, please be patient...

Volker.

[Volker Halle]

Ian,

the crash with V2.2-105 starts to look like a resource problem. The SYS$MANAGER:TDC$node*.LOG file has a couple of INSFWSL and LKWSETFUL errors.

Things like this can happen, but shouldn't crash the system...

Volker.

[Volker Halle]

To all,

the TDC V2.2-105 crash problem (INVEXCEPTN in TDC_POLL at TDC$LIBSHR$A_V820-0105+AA0EC: LDL R18,#X0074(R17) ACCVIO due to R17=0) I've seen after upgrading from V2.1-84 has been worked around by increasing WSQUOTA from 4000 to 8000 for the SYSTEM account TDC_POLL is running under.

The product installation - incorrectly - states:

'Users of this product require the following process resource limits:
WSQUO minimum 4000'

This value might need to be increased with V2.2-105 !

Volker.

[Volker Halle]

re: TDC/ECP compatibility

It looks like data collected with TDC V2.2-105 cannot be (completely ?) viewed with ECP V5.5A

I've received information that the V2.2-105 data can be viewed with ECP V5.6 (currently in fieldtest).

So it seems best to stay with TDC V2.1-84 and ECP V5.5A on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2

Volker.

[Ian Miller.]

I hope they fix TDC_POLL so it handles lack of memory more gracefully.

[Volker Halle]

Dane,

there is another little bug in:

SYS$COMMON:TDC$DELETE_LOGS.TEMPLATE

This procedure is supposed to delete old TDC$node$yymmddhhmmss.LOG and .COM files, but it is slightly outdated, as the file lookup string is:

LOG_FILE = f$search( "''DELETE_DIR'TDC$''DELETE_NODE'$04%%%%%%%%%%.LOG;*" )

should nowadays (we are in 2006 !) be (replace 04 with %%):

LOG_FILE = f$search( "''DELETE_DIR'TDC$''DELETE_NODE'$%%%%%%%%%%%%.LOG;*" )

Call this file from time to time with:

$ @...TDC$DELETE_LOGS.TEMPLATE 14 SYS$MANAGER:

to have it delete files older than 14 days.

Volker.

[clarklk]

A reboot is not required after installing or updating TDC.

HOWEVER, be aware that, if you're updating the software, the new software may not run correctly until all TDC-using data-collection applications have been shut down. This includes the TDC application itself (the thing that runs in response to the TDC command; the thing that runs in the ECP_POLL process), as well as the OpenView Performance Agent and any applications you've built yourself from the SDK.

The reason for the required application shutdown is that the executive image installed with the new software won't load if the executive image installed with the old software is already loaded. Stopping all TDC collectors allows the "old" executive image to unload.

-- Lee Clark

[clarklk]

re:

"the TDC V2.2-105 crash problem (INVEXCEPTN in TDC_POLL at TDC$LIBSHR$A_V820-0105+AA0EC: LDL R18,#X0074(R17) ACCVIO due to R17=0) I've seen after upgrading from V2.1-84 has been worked around by increasing WSQUOTA from 4000 to 8000 for the SYSTEM account TDC_POLL is running under.

The product installation - incorrectly - states:

'Users of this product require the following process resource limits:
WSQUO minimum 4000'

This value might need to be increased with V2.2-105 !"

It appears we were a "bit" optimistic in establishing a minimum working set size for the product. A working set size of 8000 is probably more realistic for an Alpha system with several hundred process slots (SCH$GL_MAXPIX); a value of 10000 might be a good starting point for an I64 system with several hundred process slots.

The V2.2 value should not be substantially higher than the V2.1 value.

We'll try to better quantify the exact requirement (which will depend on system configuration) with a future release.

-- Lee Clark

[clarklk]

re Volker...

"the TDC V2.2-105 crash problem (INVEXCEPTN in TDC_POLL at TDC$LIBSHR$A_V820-0105+AA0EC: LDL R18,#X0074(R17) ACCVIO due to R17=0) I've seen after upgrading from V2.1-84 has been worked around by increasing WSQUOTA from 4000 to 8000 for the SYSTEM account TDC_POLL is running under."

Are you saying that V2.1-84 did NOT crash on the same system with the same workload, while V2.2-105 DID crash?

Thanks.

-- Lee Clark

[clarklk]

re Volker...

"re: TDC/ECP compatibility

It looks like data collected with TDC V2.2-105 cannot be (completely ?) viewed with ECP V5.5A

I've received information that the V2.2-105 data can be viewed with ECP V5.6 (currently in fieldtest)."

That information is correct.

ECP V5.5A took a very conservative approach and coded a TDC version check for V2.1 (actually for the versions of the data records created by TDC V2.1 rather than for TDC V2.1 per se).

The next release (ECP V5.6?) should function correctly with TDC V2.2 and later.

So, if running ECP V5.5A, TDC V2.1 is required (not V2.1 or later as apparently stated on the ECP web page).

If running ECP V.next (5.6?), TDC V2.2 or later is required (probably won't work with TDC V2.1, though I don't know if the ECP engineers plan to test that).

-- Lee Clark

[clarklk]

re Volker...

"there is another little bug in:

SYS$COMMON:TDC$DELETE_LOGS.TEMPLATE

This procedure is supposed to delete old TDC$node$yymmddhhmmss.LOG and .COM files, but it is slightly outdated, as the file lookup string is:

LOG_FILE = f$search( "''DELETE_DIR'TDC$''DELETE_NODE'$04%%%%%%%%%%.LOG;*" )

should nowadays (we are in 2006 !) be (replace 04 with %%):"


Well, that's why we named it .TEMPLATE rather than .COM, and suggested you should modify it to suit your purposes ;^)

The proverbial "future release" will contain a corrected utility.

-- Lee Clark

[Volker Halle]

Lee,

sorry, that I couldn't come to your TDC session at the bootcamp. My mind may be 'multi-threaded', but I'm physically limitated to visiting a single session at a time ;-)

Thanks for answering and confirming my observations regarding TDC V2.2-105.


Are you saying that V2.1-84 did NOT crash on the same system with the same workload, while V2.2-105 DID crash?


YES, I did run TDC V2.1-84 on this test system before I upgraded to V2.2-105. I looked at some of the 'old' TDC$nodeyymmdd*.LOG file. The peak working set size of V2.1-84 TDC_POLL seems to have been around 8000 pages, whereas V2.2-105 seems to use use a peak value of around 9200. Until I doubled WSQUOTA (SYSTEM account, WSDEFAULT=2000) from 4000 to 8000 pages on this memory-limited 96 MB test system, it crashed during TDC startup with an ACCVIO in TDC code, which seems to work the process list.

There were LKWSETFUL errors in the V2.2-106 TDC$node*.LOG files immediately preceeding the crash. A call has been raised with HP in Germany 4 weeks ago and the log files have been provided, I would have hoped that this information would have reached you by now...

May I suggest, that you add an appropriate note on the TDC WEB page regarding the TDC version to be used with ECP V5.5A ? A note saying: do not use TDC V2.2 with ECP V5.5A would help reduce the confusion.

Thanks,

Volker.