Writing VMS files to floppy disk via NT...

[Nigel Wright_1]

Does anyone know of any way of writing VMS data to floppy disk 5 1/4", via Windows?

[Steven Schweda]

I don't even know what that means.

Where/what are the "VMS data"?

Where is the floppy drive?

Do you want a DOS-format floppy or a
VMS-format floppy, or what?

[Joseph Huber_1]

"via Windows" I assume ou have a network connection between VMS and a Windows system ?
Then Your problem is what ? just to preserve the file/record structure of the VMS files ?

The best way would be to use info-ZIP to pack the files with the -"V" option into an archive.
e.g. ZIP -"V" archive file1 file2 ...
This archive (archive.zip) can then be transferred via network [(S)FTP] in binary mode.

[Steven Schweda]

Personally, I'd probably fire up my
VAXstation 2000, which has an RX33-like
5.25-inch floppy drive sitting right on top
of its TK50Z-FA tape drive, allowing me to
bypass the whole Windows thing, but I realize
that not everyone has such a deluxe hardware
collection.

[Nigel Wright_1]

We have a VAX that has 5 1/4" floppy drive directly attached to it. We use Exchange to copy the files to the floppy. What we are thinking is that we say use AS to transfer the files to a Windows enviroment and then use a floppy drive there to write the files to RX50K floppy disk. On reading the floppy we need the format and readability of the floppy to be exactly the same as if it had been written by the VAX via exchange.

[Steven Schweda]

RX50? Yow. Are you sure that the floppy
drive in your Windows system can even write
at that density (or lack thereof)?

Assuming that it can, what are you doing now
with EXCHANGE? If you could create an image
of the floppy data (somehow), and if there's
a raw-write kind of program on the Windows
side, then maybe.

Who's _reading_ these floppies? I'd sure be
looking for a non-floppy way to move these
data. Especially if the floppies are RX50.

[Nigel Wright_1]

They need to be produced in this format - sorry I can't say anymore about that.

To be honest i am not sure if windows can do any of this that's why I am asking the question.

We have a lot of old kit here including an RV20, 8 " floppy drive and even RL02s.

[Steven Schweda]

Hmmm. Would EXCHANGE work with an
RX50-sized LD pseudo-disk? That might be a
way to make the floppy image. (A "disk" is
a disk, after all, isn't it?)

Dares one ask what this VAX is, and which
version of VMS is running on it? Or would
those data be too frightening?

(My guess would be a MicroVAX II and VMS
V5.something, but feel free to amaze me
(again).)

[Steven Schweda]

> [...] I can't say anymore about that.

You can't say what the EXCHANGE command looks
like? Don't make this too easy, now.

I'd first try to get the Windows system to
write anything at all at the right density.
(So the VAX could, say, MOUNT /FOREIGN and
DUMP the thing.) If you can't write the
data at the right density on the Windows
system, then you could waste a lot of time
getting the data all ready to do the last
step, which you then can't do.

[Nigel Wright_1]

It is VAX 4000-200 on VMS 6.2.

[Nigel Wright_1]

>>Who's _reading_ these floppies? I'd sure be
looking for a non-floppy way to move these
data. Especially if the floppies are RX50.<<

What I cannnot say is who is going to reading these floppies all the rest I can answer.

As for the exchange command I just thought it was something carried over from the PDP days, that works on a VAX.

[Steven Schweda]

> It is VAX 4000-200 on VMS 6.2.

Well, that's as modern as _my_ VAXes get
(except for the OS). Never saw an RX50 in
anything newer than a mu-VAX II, though. I
guess I don't get around much.

> As for the exchange command I just thought
> it was something carried over from the PDP
> days, that works on a VAX.

Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to see an example,
so I knew with what I was dealing,
format-wise.

[Steven Schweda]

On the bright side, a quick Google search for
dos OR windows raw write floppy
turned up a few promising things, like:

http://www.fdos.org/ripcord/rawrite/

which at least seems to admit to some pretty
low densities, and offers a lot of links to
other programs. (One of which _must_ be able
to do the job, right?)

I'd still test the capabilities of the floppy
drive on the Windows side before getting too
excited about the software.

LD looks to be available for VMS V6.2,
however, so what could go wrong?

http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver

[Verne Britton]

Back in the day of my Rainbow (now in storage in the basement), there was a way to write compatible disks using a PC and a 5.25 drive ... but I can't for the life of me remember the utility program or native commands to do it :-)

Just some odd backround ...

Also, I just checked HELP EXCHANGE on my Vax under 7.3, and it says Exchange supports by itself, virtual volumes ... there is an example under HELP EXCH INIT

Nigel, the earlier question still stands (I think): what format do you currently make? That is, what does the floppy look like to VMS after you make it? Is Exchange the only thing that can read it on VMS?

And what commands and utilities can you use today on a PC (any PC) to verify the floppy ... so as to know how to check your future floppy creation (plus this may give the rest of us more insight)?

p.s. It has been a long time since I saw a new PC with a 5.25 drive ... is it easy to get them still?

Verne

[Verne Britton]

Charles Lasner writes in RX50FAQ.DOC (Version 1.1.2 21-APR-1994) located at http://www.classiccmp.org/rainbow/files/rx50faq.doc (it is a simple text file):

12) RT11.EXE (et al)

RT11 is the name of a PD utility that handles RT-11 format RX50
diskettes on MS-DOS. Diskettes can be formatted and files can be
maintained as either RT-11 diskette files or MS-DOS files. A nifty
feature is to access an image of the entire diskette which is actually an
MS-DOS file! The utility is designed to resemble a subset of actually
running RT-11, etc.


... if this helps give any pointers ...

I have not had the time to run them all down, but searching Google Groups for "rt11.exe" shows some discussions on accessing RT-11 diskettes on a PC ...

Verne

[Steven Schweda]

> [...] Exchange supports by itself, virtual
> volumes [...]

Sure enough. Even the Alpha HELP agrees.
This just gets easier and easier.

> [...] a new PC with a 5.25 drive ... is it
> easy to get them still?

Seems unlikely. I don't even see 5.25-inch
floppy drives at my local junk stores any
more.

> [...] my Rainbow [...]

Long (20 years?) ago, I had minimal contact
with a MicroVAX I (BA23?) which had an RX50
drive as its only removable storage. Its
primary user did BACKUP to RX50 (many
diskettes), and the VAX (or VMS, or the
RQDX2, or the drive, or something else in the
chain) could not format the disks itself, so
that was done on a Rainbow. (As I recall,
the Rainbow was a free gift which came with
the purchase of a MicroVAX II, but no bets.
I haven't seen one of either in a very long
time.) I have seen RX50 drives in II's, but
I never saw one used.

I'll admit to wondering where to obtain the
floppies now, and/or how to format them if
they don't come ready-to-go.

[Hoff]

There's a section in the OpenVMS FAQ http://www.hoffmanlabs.com/vmsfaq/ on reading FAT-format files on OpenVMS.

In addition to what's listed in the FAQ, there's mtools (and a reference to that tool will be in the next edition of the FAQ).
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/mtools/

The other approach is via the ODS readers that are available on the Freeware. These are used on other platforms, and read ODS-2 volume structures.
http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware/

At the lowest levels, you will likely want to use stream LF formats. Indexed files and such will not be transportable without record-level conversions. Into sequential stream LF format XML files, for instance.

Stephen Hoffman
HoffmanLabs

--- faq text ---

7.2 How do I access a Microsoft Windows floppy disk from
OpenVMS?

The HP Advanced Server (formerly known as PATHWORKS)
for OpenVMS product includes an unsupported and
undocumented utility called PCDISK, and this tool can
read and write various Microsoft MS-DOS and Microsoft
Windows FAT-format diskettes, and can usually access
FAT-format volumes written by other operating systems.

ProGIS in Germany sells a product called VMove which
supports DOS files on many different device types. For
more information, send mail to info@progis.de.

Engineering Software has a product called VAKSAT
which will read, write, and erase files on MS-DOS FAT
diskettes. Available for both VAX and Alpha. Contact
ed@cityscape.co.uk for more information.

MadGoat PC Exchange (PCX) is a utility for copying
files to and from MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows (FAT)
format diskettes under OpenVMS, using an RX23 (3.5"),
RX26 (3.5"), or RX33 (5.25") diskette drive. For 3.5"
diskettes, high-density disks can be read or written;
double-density disks are read-only. Only high-density
disks are supported on the RX33.

o http://www.madgoat.com/

The Freeware package WINFX is available on Freeware
V6.0, and can read the FAT volume structure.

o http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware/

[atul sardana]

Dear Nigel,

Its very simple way if you want any vms data file copy in a floopy disk via any windows operating system.

but only one thing you confirm in your vms server.
SYSTEM>>ucx show config enable servi

Enable service
FAILSAFE, FTP, FTP_CLIENT, REXEC, RSH, TELNET

ftp service should be enable for that....and a network connection is required from windows server to vms server.

1,ftp vms server from windows server then
give user name and password and after go to specific location where required data file is lying.simply you can use cd directory name for changing default location and after use ascii and mget filename .
2,Change received file in zip format and copy to your floopy.

i hope it will useful...

Atul

[Stanley F Quayle]

> They need to be produced in this format - sorry I can't say anymore about that.

This sounds like a prospect I had for CHARON-VAX [Shameless Plug Alert (tm)]. They keep a VAX 11/780 in their cluster because it's the only device that can write the 9-track tapes that they exchange with other governments.

Note to self: never hard-code technology into treaty requirements...