zx2000 , VMS 8.3 can not install

[Jur van der Burg]

> originally tried that command "fs0:\
>\EFI\VMS\vms_loader.efi -flags 30000,0"

That's wrong. Use 0,30000 for the flags and it may show some REAL info.

Jur.

[brendanh]

Jur van der Burg :-

Hangs at the same place as every other command I've used.

Thanks

[brendanh]

Steven Schweda:-

Only thing different seems to be your using an LSI 1010 based SCSi card.
I am using an LSI 1030 with HP EFI firmware.
From what I have read this should work fine.

I know the DVD-rom works because its from my Sun Enterprise 3000.

Thanks

[brendanh]

All,

I booted the DVD with the following:-
vms_loader.efi -flags 0,20000

After a wile text stops scrolling, DVD stops reading system hangs.
All though this time I've got more information.

System will not go past "%SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system disk"

I notice that this what a lot of people got with the IDE DVD-ROM on the wrong cable trick.
Since i am using SCSI that can not be

Heres a copy of the last lines..
_____________________________________________
%GPS-I-Seeking BusType:15 Chan:00 Slot:00000000.FF5E0000 HCDP Dev
%GPS-I-Found BootDev ADP:8808C540 BAE:8808CA38 Slot: 00000000.FF5E0000
%IOC$DISC_BOOT-I-DISC_PBD, Disconnecting from primary boot device
%EXECINIT-I-INITSMP, initializing SMP environment
%EXECINIT-I-PBM, building process bitmap
%EXECINIT-I-PSTATE, setting process states
%EXECINIT-I-PHV, filling process header vector
%EXECINIT-I-PAGSWPVEC, filling page/swap file vector
%EXECINIT-I-INITS, calling initialization routines
%EXECINIT-I-TMVPTES, setting TMV up with its PTEs
%EXECINIT-I-SVAPTE, setting up EXE$GL_SVAPTE
%EXECINIT-I-BLD_LOCKID, building the lock id table
%EXECINIT-I-BLD_RESHASH, building the resource hash table
%EXECINIT-I-RESMEMALC, performing reserved memory allocation
%EXECINIT-I-CLRWARM, clearing warm-start flag
%EXECINIT-I-CLRCOLD, clearing cold-start flag
%EXECINIT-I-ACTIVESET, joining ACTIVE set
%EXECINIT-S-CIAO, transferring to the scheduler
%SWAPPER-I-SHUFFLE, executing SWAPPER initialization code
%SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system disk
___________________________________________

Hope this helps
Brendan

[Heuser-Hofmann]

It is not possible to boot from a SCSI-DVD because SCSI-DVD-drive switch automatically to 2048 bytes per I/O whereas VMS only handles 512 bytes per I/O.

My advise is to use USB.

Eberhard

[Steven Schweda]

> It is not possible to boot from a SCSI-DVD [...]

Well, ok. In that case, I'll try never to do
it again. Sorry. I didn't mean to disturb
the delicate equilibrium of the time-space
continuum. I've disconnected the Toshiba
drive, and put everything back the way it was.
I can only hope that it's not too late.

[Hoff]

AFAIK, the OpenVMS SCSI SYS$DKDRIVER device driver for V8.3 and later does provide latent 2048-byte sector de-blocking specifically for optical media.

That written, grabbing an arbitrary SCSI DVD isn't a good idea if you're already working with a semi- or fully-unsupported box -- this even if it's an arbitrary HP device. The console and the OpenVMS bootstrap environment are both limited and are accordingly somewhat finicky. And the specific behavior of SCSI DVD devices varied. Get it working first, and then branch out to weird devices.

[brendanh]

So booting from a SCSI DVD-ROM should work ? But its not a good idea?

I have a think that my IDE controller is stuffed. I can't even boot the off line diag CD with ANY IDE DVD or CDROM! Use my SCSI drive and up it boots with out a problem.

Best plan of attack is USB drive?
Is VMS picky about what USB DVD-ROm devices?
Should open VMS boot with out a hitch via USB DVD?

Or have a read into the thread to much?

Steven Schweda:-
Your comments made me laugh..

[Steven Schweda]

> So booting from a SCSI DVD-ROM should
> work ? But its not a good idea?

More like: It may work (as it did for me),
but _expecting_ it to work with arbitrary
hardware is probably not a good idea.

> Best plan of attack is USB drive?

Not having tried it, I'd assume that this
would be asking for (even more) trouble.

Is VMS picky about what USB DVD-ROm devices?

I'd assume so (but you could get lucky).

> Should open VMS boot with out a hitch via
> USB DVD?

I'd assume not, but I haven't even looked at
what the EFI stuff does with any USB device,
so what's my opinion worth?

> Your comments made me laugh..

Almost as much fun as getting the zx2000 to
work? (Eberhard is a good guy, by the way,
and he may have more USB DVD experience than
I, so if you had a suitable drive lying
around, it might be worth a try. Or, if you
can find one of those Toshiba drives at your
local junk dealer, ...)

[Hoff]

I had a long answer queued.

But I won't post it here.

Shelve this particular device and save it for some purpose elsewhere (possibly simply not as a boot device), and get an IDE ATAPI DVD device -- one that is as close as you can get to one of the devices used in a bootable and supported configuration.

I've mentioned a few that I've tried with OpenVMS over at the web site, though I can't say I've tried booting with any these widgets. I might well try a Plextor drive. I know a bunch of DVD devices that don't allow bootstraps on Alpha boxes such as the AlphaStation XP1000, for instance.

You own far more of the whole equation here and of the hardware configuration here, given you're working with unsupported gear. This particular kit does not work. Folks outside of HP OpenVMS Engineering are generally not in a position to update EFI or IPB to debug and to add device support, so these sorts of low-level bootstrap errors are generally translated as "try something else".

Drives are cheap.

Barring cases where you plan to add large numbers of drives and/or large numbers of systems, it just isn't worth adding support for or even simply troubleshooting with a drive that doesn't work.

Try something else.

[brendanh]

Hoff:-
More then happy to buy a few DVD-Roms
I can not seem to locate this page with a list of supported or tested configurations.


Thanks for your time.

[Heuser-Hofmann]

> Is VMS picky about what USB DVD-ROm devices?

I just tested a USB-IDE-Converter and connected it to a DVD-ROM.

The OVMS V8.3-1H1 DVD boots just fine (but not very fast).

If you have access to an Alpha or I64 it is possible to copy the DVD to a SCSI-disk drive and boot it from the disk. This was the method I had to use when I installed OVMS to a zx2000.

eberhard

[Hoff]

There are folks here that would be willing and able to configure and test an operational zx2000 server for you, should you wish that.

Alternatively -- if you're not willing to start throwing money at this box and testing and swapping for random gear -- you might want to reconsider the choice of an unsupported box, and trade this (unsupported) box for a (supported) rx2600 or rx2620 office environment box (and one with the requisite supported giblets).

Or (as has been mentioned) you can start throwing random right-vintage hardware at the box, and perform your own integration and testing.

Plextor IDE ATAPI drives have been reasonably compatible across the OpenVMS IDE-capable boxes I have tried, and there are vendors selling compatible and HP replacement parts for this and similar boxes.

It would not surprise me to find IDE ATAPI drives available for this box -- drives that are those that HP originally shipped with this box. You'll pay (extra) for those.

There's no hardware list for OpenVMS for this zx2000 box, because OpenVMS was never supported on this box. The closest list is that of the rx2600 series, and the DVD form factor there differs, or you could look for the list of devices originally shipped with the boxes (that list is likely buried somewhere at the HP web site). Even if somebody were to point to one drive or adapter that worked, it's possible that a different firmware revision might not, or that the version you can find and buy might be completely different hardware.

For humor value: the term "Compatible" is a long-standing term from the computer marketing lexicon that loosely translates as "Different". If a particular device were actually and truly "Identical", then it would almost certainly be sold as such.

Buy it or borrow it or scrounge it. Try it. See if it works. Most hobbyists will end up with stacks of random CD and DVD drives for a reason, after all.

[brendanh]

Heuser-Hofmann:-

No access to VAX or Alpha. If I did I'd use that.
I might try and get another USB to IDE device.

Hoff:-
Getting an Itanium in Australia is a very hard task. I've never seen rx2600 and zx2000 don't come up to that much. When they do there usually $900+ AUD.

The box I got is in a pretty bad physical state and untested but the price was right.

Wanted to get a Itanium so that I can use HP-UX 11.23 and VMS.
I would love to get hold of a rx2600 been rack mount and all.

I will continue to throw random hardware at the machine in hope that something starts to work.

I'll see if I can find some Plextor IDE DVD-Rom drives for it.

I gave all my older DVD-ROM drives away to a local linux group when i moved :) Time to start collecting.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the box.

Thanks for your help.
I do apreachiate it a lot

[Jan van den Ende]

at Hoff:

>>>
For humor value: the term "Compatible" is a long-standing term from the computer marketing lexicon that loosely translates as "Different".
<<<

On a similar vain: Long ago I was told the term to mean: "If you connect them, the fuses won't blow. Anything better is a bonus".

fwiw

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

[brendanh]

All,

I have a working install of VMS!
Was the DVD-Rom drive. I found an old 6x DVD-ROM and its quite happy to install VMS no errors.

So what happens when we all run out of old DVD-ROMs :(

Big thanks to :-
Steven Schweda
Hoff
Heuser-Hofmann

[brendanh]

Old DVD-ROm Fixed the issue
Thanks Hoff

[Hoff]

What do we do?

We swap. Hardware and/or software and/or...

Do not assume compatibility.

Do not assume interchangability.

CD and DVD drives are not necessarily compatible with host software nor with buses nor with individual media nor with types of media or with particular batches of media.

Don't even assume that one series of drive to the next revision of the same series and model from the same vendor is compatible, nor even remotely similar.

DVDs are field-replaceable units (FRUs), and -- on failures -- we swap media and we swap FRUs.

When in doubt, swap it out.