DL380p Gen8 incompatible with SAS expander? Smart Array P822?

[anthony11]

When configuring a new system on HP's web site, adding the second 8SFF drive cage brings up a message indicating that one must add a P421 or P822 HBA.  This raises two problems:

1) The P822 is not available for selection on the configurator.  In fact I can't find any description of it on the web at all, though it seems logical that a successor to the P812 would accompany the P420/P421.  Anyone know when it might surface?

2) In the past one could use a SAS expander to attach both the second 8SFF drive cage and the stock cage to the same HBA, eg. the embedded P410i used on the DL380 G6.  The advantage here is being able to share spares between the two cages, and being able to configure RAID volumes with more than 8 disks.  Since the Gen 8 HBA's finally offer the capability 3-way mirror, I was hoping to be able to configure 12 disks in a volume, a 4-way stripe of 3-way mirrors. I called HP about this and got handed off to offshored tech support, who was slow to understand the issue.  After researching for a while he said something about HP not recommending / allowing the SAS expander in Gen 8 systems, blah blah performance blah, and are "working on something else".

I'd be grateful to anyone who can enlighten me as to the situation, if this is true, that it won't work, that it'll work fine if I buy the parts separately, or that it's just a bug in the configurator and should be orderable.  Sure I can just stick in a P421, but that means that I can't have global spares, and I can't configure more than a 2-way stripe (2x 3-way mirrors).

[Goutham_Sabala]

1> DL380p Gen8 supports Smart Array P222/P420/P421/H221 and as you might already know that it has integrated P420i

2> Sas Expanders are not supported starting from Gen8 servers , basically the expander is built into the backplanes, I understand that by not having a sas expander we cannot span a logical drive across two different backplanes as it is on two different controllers. HP soon will start shipping 12LFF and 25SFF expander based backplanes which means that the embedded P420i will be able to support the 12LFF and 25SFF without having to purchase an additional controller

[anthony11]

---

@Goutham_Sabala wrote:

1> DL380p Gen8 supports Smart Array P222/P420/P421/H221 and as you might already know that it has integrated P420i

Of course.  I still need to know when the P822 will be advertised, orderable, and shipping.  I'd buy it today if I could to work around the lack of the SAS expander.  The P822 obviously is coming -- just not clear when.

2> Sas Expanders are not supported starting from Gen8 servers , basically the expander is built into the backplanes, I understand that by not having a sas expander we cannot span a logical drive across two different backplanes as it is on two different controllers. HP soon will start shipping 12LFF and 25SFF expander based backplanes which means that the embedded P420i will be able to support the 12LFF and 25SFF without having to purchase an additional controller

Interesting. Not sure how 25 SFF bays will fit given the new disk brackets and the status display / connectors on the right side of the front panel.  25 would be great, though a 16SFF panel would seem more likely.  When will this be announced, orderable, and shipping?  I spent two hours on the phone the other day being forwarded around HP, and nobody understood the issue with the lack of the SAS expander, and nobody mentioned these new drive cages.

---

[Steve Burkett]

Good to know, There's a very brief mention on these in the HP technology paper:

Technology considerations in selecting a direct attached storage solution for HP ProLiant Gen8 servers

"Expanders
SAS expanders allow one SAS port to connect to multiple drives or other expanders. HP SAS Expander Cards and ProLiant Gen8 Expander Backplanes allow servers to connect more drives per port, use more than eight internal drives in a RAID array, and spread a RAID array across multiple drive cages.

Internal expander backplanes
HP developed new expander backplanes for use in ProLiant Gen8 server platforms. Unlike previous designs, these backplanes do not require a SAS expander in a PCIe slot. They have simplified cabling and support SmartDrive status monitoring and error logging."

[anthony11]

Thanks, Steve.  I'll read through that document -- had not seen it before.

[anthony11]

A few models of DL380* appear on HP's web site now with ostensible 25SFF cages.  The choices are few, though, and there is much confusion between 8SFF and 25SFF models.

There's also a DL380e Gen8 now, with little indication of how it dffers from the DL380p Gen8.

[Goutham_Sabala]

Not sure if you looked at this for DL380e Gen8
http://h30507.www3.hp.com/t5/Coffee-Coaching-HP-and-Microsoft/Let-s-learn-about-the-new-DL380e-Gen8-ProLiant-Server/ba-p/113243

Here is a better one for you ( edited ) located the quick specs of E ( essential series ) 

DL380e Gen8

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/14327_div/14327_div.HTML

DL380p Gen8 (performance series )

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/14212_div/14212_div.HTML

[anthony11]

An HP rep initially claimed to me that the DL380e differed from the DL380p by being a tower, which is not the case.

Best I can figure, the DL380e is characterized by lower-performance CPU's with fewer memory channels.

Linking to the quickspecs document doesn't help me quote a configuration I can use or tell me when 25SFF models would actually ship.  The first DL380p's we ordered only partially shipped; HP only shipped the memory, disks, etc. a month later.

[Goutham_Sabala]

Hi Anthony,

25SFF will start shipping by July. I do not have exact date but were meant to ship by 2H

[anthony11]

Good to know, thanks.  Information on these is scarce on hp.com, plus of course the usual 40% failure rate of page views.

Any info on whether a decent set of stock configurations will appear?  So far the only models configurable on the web site are the dl380e, and one large dl385 configuration.  Quickspecs mention a CTO base model and one with two high-end 8-core CPU's, but those don't show up anywhere else.